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	<title>Comments on: Alternatives in women&#8217;s sizing</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
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		<title>By: Push manufacturing; subverting the fit feedback loop</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-21165</link>
		<dc:creator>Push manufacturing; subverting the fit feedback loop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-21165</guid>
		<description>[...] Entropy Push manufacturing; subverting the fit feedback loop Sizing evolution Shrinkage and fit Alternatives in Women’s sizing Tyranny of tiny sizes? The history of women’s sizing pt 1 The history of women’s sizing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Entropy Push manufacturing; subverting the fit feedback loop Sizing evolution Shrinkage and fit Alternatives in Women’s sizing Tyranny of tiny sizes? The history of women’s sizing pt 1 The history of women’s sizing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Size is a matter of opinion?</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-20869</link>
		<dc:creator>Size is a matter of opinion?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-20869</guid>
		<description>[...] process of gathering information to explain and quantify grading in the context of what I’d said before: …consumers have the expectation that if they gain weight, they should be able to grab the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] process of gathering information to explain and quantify grading in the context of what I’d said before: …consumers have the expectation that if they gain weight, they should be able to grab the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Vikki Haffenden</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-11630</link>
		<dc:creator>Vikki Haffenden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-11630</guid>
		<description>I am currently doing doctoral research into improving the fit of knitwear for larger sized women. Using a small group of women of different body type I originally measured, and have subsequently body scanned their bodies to make the garment prototypes and use their feedback to samples establish comfort and wearability of future garments. I use a Shima Seiki CAD/CAM system for prototyping and as I don&#039;t have access to a Wholegarment machine, I use an SES machine to knit garments, but the principles of knit to fit hold true for the newer technology. 

Some of the above comments are so true, as part of my research I have run an online body shape /clothing preference survey and these are so similar to the responses. My interest ultimately is custom made knitwear, either on a small scale, or in mass made to measure in some way. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently doing doctoral research into improving the fit of knitwear for larger sized women. Using a small group of women of different body type I originally measured, and have subsequently body scanned their bodies to make the garment prototypes and use their feedback to samples establish comfort and wearability of future garments. I use a Shima Seiki CAD/CAM system for prototyping and as I don&#8217;t have access to a Wholegarment machine, I use an SES machine to knit garments, but the principles of knit to fit hold true for the newer technology. </p>
<p>Some of the above comments are so true, as part of my research I have run an online body shape /clothing preference survey and these are so similar to the responses. My interest ultimately is custom made knitwear, either on a small scale, or in mass made to measure in some way.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-634</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-634</guid>
		<description>I am currently working on a line of sleepwear/ lounge wear for larger cup sizes with built in support (a-line dress w/ shelf bra for this year, underwire later).  it will be sized by band, cup and hip.  For example  Size A will fit a 32D-E/34C-D and Size A will come in Small, Med, Large depending on you hip measurement.  I am hoping this approach works.  It has taken months to get the fit right with my pattern maker but we are close to final prototypes.  I am looking for places to do samples now and wanted to find a place that did samples that could also do the grading.  I am hoping to find a place that has grading expertise with bras.  Does anyone know of such a place?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently working on a line of sleepwear/ lounge wear for larger cup sizes with built in support (a-line dress w/ shelf bra for this year, underwire later).  it will be sized by band, cup and hip.  For example  Size A will fit a 32D-E/34C-D and Size A will come in Small, Med, Large depending on you hip measurement.  I am hoping this approach works.  It has taken months to get the fit right with my pattern maker but we are close to final prototypes.  I am looking for places to do samples now and wanted to find a place that did samples that could also do the grading.  I am hoping to find a place that has grading expertise with bras.  Does anyone know of such a place?</p>
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		<title>By: criss</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-633</link>
		<dc:creator>criss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-633</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure where this idea comes from that fatter people are taller.  I&#039;m 5&#039;4&quot; and a size 22-24, and I can almost never put on a pair of pants that doesn&#039;t drag the ground or a jacket that doesn&#039;t cover my hands completely.

At least there are quick fixes for those problems--for fitted tops, I am just SOL, because they&#039;re always cut for DDs and I am a B cup.  Sure, I may be an outlier, but I have met a number of women with similar issues.  In fact, among people I know (not statistically significant, I realize, but still), I would say there&#039;s approximately zero correlation between height and size.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure where this idea comes from that fatter people are taller.  I&#8217;m 5&#8242;4&#8243; and a size 22-24, and I can almost never put on a pair of pants that doesn&#8217;t drag the ground or a jacket that doesn&#8217;t cover my hands completely.</p>
<p>At least there are quick fixes for those problems&#8211;for fitted tops, I am just SOL, because they&#8217;re always cut for DDs and I am a B cup.  Sure, I may be an outlier, but I have met a number of women with similar issues.  In fact, among people I know (not statistically significant, I realize, but still), I would say there&#8217;s approximately zero correlation between height and size.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-632</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 13:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-632</guid>
		<description>Hi Stephen
Actually, I did an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/nag_nag_nag_en_13402.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;analysis of the EN-13402&lt;/a&gt;. I believe the value of the system is actually the promulgation of the pictograph (I include a copy of my rendition, free) which one can use regardless of whether one chooses to adopt the EN strategy. I don&#039;t believe the latter is a total solution; statistical surveys only report the mean leaving the other 50% of the population without redress. Regardless of which system one uses, I think the issue is one of transparency. Manufacturers must be more proactive about disclosing the parameters of measures that constitute any given size.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The publications also include common size ranges (based on statistical studies), so for example a man with chest 104 (cm) might usually have a waist of 92 (a drop of -12 cm), but a range of other drop sizes (between -20 to +8) are also seen.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not to quibble with your example but there is much less variation btwn men&#039;s sizes than women&#039;s. Men&#039;s sizing has always more readily lent itself to standardization.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Stephen<br />
Actually, I did an <a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/nag_nag_nag_en_13402.html" rel="nofollow">analysis of the EN-13402</a>. I believe the value of the system is actually the promulgation of the pictograph (I include a copy of my rendition, free) which one can use regardless of whether one chooses to adopt the EN strategy. I don&#8217;t believe the latter is a total solution; statistical surveys only report the mean leaving the other 50% of the population without redress. Regardless of which system one uses, I think the issue is one of transparency. Manufacturers must be more proactive about disclosing the parameters of measures that constitute any given size.</p>
<blockquote><p>The publications also include common size ranges (based on statistical studies), so for example a man with chest 104 (cm) might usually have a waist of 92 (a drop of -12 cm), but a range of other drop sizes (between -20 to +8) are also seen.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not to quibble with your example but there is much less variation btwn men&#8217;s sizes than women&#8217;s. Men&#8217;s sizing has always more readily lent itself to standardization.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 05:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-631</guid>
		<description>For statistical based range of size measurements, see the previous EN-13402 mention.

This European standard is based on labelling garments not with arbitrary sizes (size &quot;2&quot; ... what does a &quot;2&quot; mean? different things depending on the target demographic), but with actual measurements on a language-neutral pictogram.

e.g. A garment would be labelled with:
Bust 94-98 (37-39 inches)
Hips 102-106 (40-42 inches)
Height 158-174 (5&#039;2&quot;-5&#039;9&quot;)

Note the measurements are in metric (which, incidentally, were initially adopted by the USA in the 1800&#039;s).

There is also a short form of codes using the middle of the range for the primary measurement and letter codes for the others, e.g. 084DH would be a slender but tall size.

The use of actual measurements makes mail order and Internet ordering much easier, and using multiple measurements allows a much wider range of body types to be accommodated.

The publications also include common size ranges (based on statistical studies), so for example a man with chest 104 (cm) might usually have a waist of 92 (a drop of -12 cm), but a range of other drop sizes (between -20 to +8) are also seen.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For statistical based range of size measurements, see the previous EN-13402 mention.</p>
<p>This European standard is based on labelling garments not with arbitrary sizes (size &#8220;2&#8243; &#8230; what does a &#8220;2&#8243; mean? different things depending on the target demographic), but with actual measurements on a language-neutral pictogram.</p>
<p>e.g. A garment would be labelled with:<br />
Bust 94-98 (37-39 inches)<br />
Hips 102-106 (40-42 inches)<br />
Height 158-174 (5&#8242;2&#8243;-5&#8242;9&#8243;)</p>
<p>Note the measurements are in metric (which, incidentally, were initially adopted by the USA in the 1800&#8217;s).</p>
<p>There is also a short form of codes using the middle of the range for the primary measurement and letter codes for the others, e.g. 084DH would be a slender but tall size.</p>
<p>The use of actual measurements makes mail order and Internet ordering much easier, and using multiple measurements allows a much wider range of body types to be accommodated.</p>
<p>The publications also include common size ranges (based on statistical studies), so for example a man with chest 104 (cm) might usually have a waist of 92 (a drop of -12 cm), but a range of other drop sizes (between -20 to +8) are also seen.</p>
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		<title>By: Grace</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 19:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-630</guid>
		<description>Do you know if anyone has done a regression analysis of body measurements on a large sample set?

Suppose you measure 10,000 or so women and put them into a program that lets you slice and dice data, say my favorite, Interactive Data Language (IDL).  Then you can do simple regression analysis between measurements (say bust and back width).  The slope would give a linear constant to improve grading.

I like to do a scatter plot of things that should be related.  Often, clusters would appear.  If you plot hips vs. waist, clusters might appear representing apples and pears.  Do the regression analysis for each set of figure types separately.  That gives you grading guidelines for different figure types.

Surely, someone has thought of this before.  Has anyone done it?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know if anyone has done a regression analysis of body measurements on a large sample set?</p>
<p>Suppose you measure 10,000 or so women and put them into a program that lets you slice and dice data, say my favorite, Interactive Data Language (IDL).  Then you can do simple regression analysis between measurements (say bust and back width).  The slope would give a linear constant to improve grading.</p>
<p>I like to do a scatter plot of things that should be related.  Often, clusters would appear.  If you plot hips vs. waist, clusters might appear representing apples and pears.  Do the regression analysis for each set of figure types separately.  That gives you grading guidelines for different figure types.</p>
<p>Surely, someone has thought of this before.  Has anyone done it?</p>
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		<title>By: Kristen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-629</guid>
		<description>Someone above was wondering about people that are very small with a large bust as if they hypothetically exist.  As a totally natural 30-32  F-G (depending on brand/style) I find extreme resonance in the argument for shirts by bra size.  America doesn&#039;t even accommodate my bra size, and I am forced to buy extremely expensive bra&#039;s from Europe that have essentially the same amount of fabric and boning as a 36D that is very easy to find (or at least comparatively).  Unfortunately I am not as handy seamstress as I would&#039;ve hoped but have found a lovely dressmaker that will do alterations for me.  glad to see someone else out there advocating what I&#039;ve been saying for years
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone above was wondering about people that are very small with a large bust as if they hypothetically exist.  As a totally natural 30-32  F-G (depending on brand/style) I find extreme resonance in the argument for shirts by bra size.  America doesn&#8217;t even accommodate my bra size, and I am forced to buy extremely expensive bra&#8217;s from Europe that have essentially the same amount of fabric and boning as a 36D that is very easy to find (or at least comparatively).  Unfortunately I am not as handy seamstress as I would&#8217;ve hoped but have found a lovely dressmaker that will do alterations for me.  glad to see someone else out there advocating what I&#8217;ve been saying for years</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/comment-page-1/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2007 02:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/08/alternatives_in_womens_sizing/#comment-628</guid>
		<description>The British Standards Institute is attempting to correct this with BS-EN13402, which calls for a pictogram with actual measurements in centimeters. Work on this standard began in 1996, and has the basic draft in 2003. Parts 1 and 2, which identify body parts to be measured, and which measurements are applicable to the garment, are established. Part 3, which specifies the sizing intervals, is still being worked on, and part 4, which calls for a 4-digit code, is in the planning stage. I have been ready for the new standard since 1983, when my measurements &quot;went metric&quot;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The British Standards Institute is attempting to correct this with BS-EN13402, which calls for a pictogram with actual measurements in centimeters. Work on this standard began in 1996, and has the basic draft in 2003. Parts 1 and 2, which identify body parts to be measured, and which measurements are applicable to the garment, are established. Part 3, which specifies the sizing intervals, is still being worked on, and part 4, which calls for a 4-digit code, is in the planning stage. I have been ready for the new standard since 1983, when my measurements &#8220;went metric&#8221;.</p>
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