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	<title>Comments on: Homage or plagiarism pt.2</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
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		<title>By: Fashion: Sustainability and Creativity : 560 :: Magazine for Parsons School of Fashion</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-22454</link>
		<dc:creator>Fashion: Sustainability and Creativity : 560 :: Magazine for Parsons School of Fashion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-22454</guid>
		<description>[...] – a must read – has written extensively and critically on paranoia in fashion, including Ghesquière&#8217;s liberal referencing of jackets by the East West Musical Instruments Co. Within the sustainable fashion community, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] – a must read – has written extensively and critically on paranoia in fashion, including Ghesquière&#8217;s liberal referencing of jackets by the East West Musical Instruments Co. Within the sustainable fashion community, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Babette</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14923</link>
		<dc:creator>Babette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14923</guid>
		<description>The copying that occured in the 50s was licensed.  Rights to copy were purchased.  Inspiration is one thing but referencing, stitch for stitch, is not kosher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The copying that occured in the 50s was licensed.  Rights to copy were purchased.  Inspiration is one thing but referencing, stitch for stitch, is not kosher.</p>
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		<title>By: Trudy Hanson</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14865</link>
		<dc:creator>Trudy Hanson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14865</guid>
		<description>I really think threatening anyone with &#039;Achy breaky Heart&#039; is just going too far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really think threatening anyone with &#8216;Achy breaky Heart&#8217; is just going too far.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14864</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:29:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14864</guid>
		<description>Speaking of couturier copyists, Danielle (FinalFashion.ca) sent me a link this morning to &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:http://coutureallure.blogspot.com/2009/06/mondrian-as-inspiration.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an entry&lt;/a&gt; about the famous YSL Mondrian dresses. Apparently, YSL wasn&#039;t the originator of the concept. YSL copied a US value brand called Jr. Sophisticates. The designer at the latter firm btw, was the then unknown Anne Klein. True to form -as when a bigger brand copies a less sophisticated one, quality improvements were evident in the YSL copies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of couturier copyists, Danielle (FinalFashion.ca) sent me a link this morning to <a href="mailto:http://coutureallure.blogspot.com/2009/06/mondrian-as-inspiration.html" rel="nofollow">an entry</a> about the famous YSL Mondrian dresses. Apparently, YSL wasn&#8217;t the originator of the concept. YSL copied a US value brand called Jr. Sophisticates. The designer at the latter firm btw, was the then unknown Anne Klein. True to form -as when a bigger brand copies a less sophisticated one, quality improvements were evident in the YSL copies.</p>
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		<title>By: carla behrle</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14863</link>
		<dc:creator>carla behrle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14863</guid>
		<description>Fascinated... finally reading these posts &amp; comments - as one who made a very, very limited &quot;homage&quot;  to this exact jacket about 14 years ago, when I was handed an original &quot;parrot&quot; jacket and asked if I could &quot;re-create&quot; it by Patricia Field in NYC. 

I have always been bored with &amp; un-interested in doing any type of &quot;knock-off&quot;, but when I saw this original jacket, as a designer/techie, I saw a challenge. 

As Kathleen said in her earlier post &quot;the design was exemplary but the execution was not.&quot; 

The original jacket, unlined, poorly finished &amp; marked a size medium, did not fit me, @ 5&#039;1 and 95 pounds at the time, or a PF employee who was about an inch taller and 6 pounds lighter.
It could barely be zipped over any type of chest &amp; you could not move your arms due to the shoulders being so narrow across the back and the sleeves were so tight you&#039;d get stuck in it trying to get it off. No lining did not help either.  It maybe would&#039;ve fit a skinny 12 year old boy in 1975, not in 1995.

I saw that jacket and really wanted to do justice to what was an incredible design &amp; concept by doing it right! Treating it the way it was crying out to be treated!

I made a completely new pattern (btw the curved seaming on the original was strictly decorative, it did nothing for fit- ditto the cb seam- good for cutting the skins- but no shaping at all!)  I aimed to keep the original period look of the jacket intact while making it fit a body. 

My version was full metallics, fully lined, faced and included the original&#039;s stash pocket. (a very good reason why the collar was so big!)

We made 5 pieces for Patricia Field &amp; one that I kept. (The appliquéd &amp; inlay pattern pieces were completely graded for each of the 3 sizes.) Later on, 5 more pieces were made for a Victoria&#039;s Secret Ad.  4 were completely re-cut into another concept at the last minute and the 5th, unchanged, was put in the  stylist&#039;s personal collection, and that was it. 

That &amp; I never claimed the original idea as my own, by omission or otherwise. 

In Nicolas Ghesquière&#039;s case, since he has such a long and ingrained habit of sending out 1) line-for-line copies of vintage pieces, always 2) without crediting the source and usually 3) without making any distinct improvement or change to the original...

This not only implies a distinct shortage of ideas on his part,  but I feel by these 3 points,  it definitely starts veering into plagiarism as opposed to &quot;Homage&quot;

...when you have the sort of resources that a house like Balenciaga has, you would think they could get the guy some help! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinated&#8230; finally reading these posts &amp; comments &#8211; as one who made a very, very limited &#8220;homage&#8221;  to this exact jacket about 14 years ago, when I was handed an original &#8220;parrot&#8221; jacket and asked if I could &#8220;re-create&#8221; it by Patricia Field in NYC. </p>
<p>I have always been bored with &amp; un-interested in doing any type of &#8220;knock-off&#8221;, but when I saw this original jacket, as a designer/techie, I saw a challenge. </p>
<p>As Kathleen said in her earlier post &#8220;the design was exemplary but the execution was not.&#8221; </p>
<p>The original jacket, unlined, poorly finished &amp; marked a size medium, did not fit me, @ 5&#8242;1 and 95 pounds at the time, or a PF employee who was about an inch taller and 6 pounds lighter.<br />
It could barely be zipped over any type of chest &amp; you could not move your arms due to the shoulders being so narrow across the back and the sleeves were so tight you&#8217;d get stuck in it trying to get it off. No lining did not help either.  It maybe would&#8217;ve fit a skinny 12 year old boy in 1975, not in 1995.</p>
<p>I saw that jacket and really wanted to do justice to what was an incredible design &amp; concept by doing it right! Treating it the way it was crying out to be treated!</p>
<p>I made a completely new pattern (btw the curved seaming on the original was strictly decorative, it did nothing for fit- ditto the cb seam- good for cutting the skins- but no shaping at all!)  I aimed to keep the original period look of the jacket intact while making it fit a body. </p>
<p>My version was full metallics, fully lined, faced and included the original&#8217;s stash pocket. (a very good reason why the collar was so big!)</p>
<p>We made 5 pieces for Patricia Field &amp; one that I kept. (The appliquéd &amp; inlay pattern pieces were completely graded for each of the 3 sizes.) Later on, 5 more pieces were made for a Victoria&#8217;s Secret Ad.  4 were completely re-cut into another concept at the last minute and the 5th, unchanged, was put in the  stylist&#8217;s personal collection, and that was it. </p>
<p>That &amp; I never claimed the original idea as my own, by omission or otherwise. </p>
<p>In Nicolas Ghesquière&#8217;s case, since he has such a long and ingrained habit of sending out 1) line-for-line copies of vintage pieces, always 2) without crediting the source and usually 3) without making any distinct improvement or change to the original&#8230;</p>
<p>This not only implies a distinct shortage of ideas on his part,  but I feel by these 3 points,  it definitely starts veering into plagiarism as opposed to &#8220;Homage&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;when you have the sort of resources that a house like Balenciaga has, you would think they could get the guy some help! <img src='http://www.fashion-incubator.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: ken simmons</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14850</link>
		<dc:creator>ken simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14850</guid>
		<description>And speaking of original, does anyone think the East West jacket is original?  It is directly inspired by Art Nouveau that enjoyed a revival in the late 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s which can be traced back to William Morris&#039; wallpaper and bookplate designs of the mid to late 1800&#039;s as well as the illustrations of Aubrey Beardsley.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And speaking of original, does anyone think the East West jacket is original?  It is directly inspired by Art Nouveau that enjoyed a revival in the late 60&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s which can be traced back to William Morris&#8217; wallpaper and bookplate designs of the mid to late 1800&#8217;s as well as the illustrations of Aubrey Beardsley.</p>
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		<title>By: ken simmons</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14849</link>
		<dc:creator>ken simmons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14849</guid>
		<description>Fashion is a living organism and eats up the past when it is hungry for it.  No one can stop it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fashion is a living organism and eats up the past when it is hungry for it.  No one can stop it.</p>
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		<title>By: Connie</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14846</link>
		<dc:creator>Connie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14846</guid>
		<description>Definitely plagiarism. Homage is when you give credit for a design inspiration and develop something new based on the existing item.  DvF gets no creativity points whatsoever and there will be no more DvF patterns for me.  At least a &quot;knock-off&quot; is an honest crook. 

It&#039;s too bad that some of these designers (not to mention politicians) don&#039;t know how to get off the stage gracefully when they have nothing new to offer. They would then be remembered as creative successes rather than dismal has-beens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely plagiarism. Homage is when you give credit for a design inspiration and develop something new based on the existing item.  DvF gets no creativity points whatsoever and there will be no more DvF patterns for me.  At least a &#8220;knock-off&#8221; is an honest crook. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s too bad that some of these designers (not to mention politicians) don&#8217;t know how to get off the stage gracefully when they have nothing new to offer. They would then be remembered as creative successes rather than dismal has-beens.</p>
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		<title>By: dosfashionistas</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/homage-or-plagiarism-pt2/comment-page-1/#comment-14841</link>
		<dc:creator>dosfashionistas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 03:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/?p=4296#comment-14841</guid>
		<description>To my thinking, the litmus test is whether the original designer is harmed by the copying. If not, it may be bad design practice but you can&#039;t say it isn&#039;t a common practice. If it didn&#039;t happen constantly, we wouldn&#039;t have the term &quot;knock-off&quot;.....

At one of my first jobs in the fashion business the girl at the front desk was there more for ornament than brains. One day she came undulating back into my cubicle to show me the dress she was wearing and tell me that the boss had thought it looked so good on her that he wanted me to, &quot;What&#039;s the word you use? Bump it off?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my thinking, the litmus test is whether the original designer is harmed by the copying. If not, it may be bad design practice but you can&#8217;t say it isn&#8217;t a common practice. If it didn&#8217;t happen constantly, we wouldn&#8217;t have the term &#8220;knock-off&#8221;&#8230;..</p>
<p>At one of my first jobs in the fashion business the girl at the front desk was there more for ornament than brains. One day she came undulating back into my cubicle to show me the dress she was wearing and tell me that the boss had thought it looked so good on her that he wanted me to, &#8220;What&#8217;s the word you use? Bump it off?&#8221;</p>
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