I ran into your “camel toe” entries (Jeans fit so lousy these days parts 1 & 2, Anatomy of a camel toe parts 1 & 2, and How to fix a camel toe) and thought I would add my two cents worth.

Years ago there used to be another “important” measurement taken when fitting trousers. I’ve looked through all my books on pattern making and fitting and cannot find it now. But I do recall it and I believe that it is the best aid in avoiding (or creating) a camel toe. That measurement starts at center waist, either front or back, goes down and around the crotch and ends back at center waist the opposite “side” of the body. It is used to check the crotch seam of a pair of trousers. If you want to DE-emphasize the cleavage, either front or back, you make sure that the pattern matches the measurement with a couple of inches for ease. To emphasize the cleavage, shorten the measurement, which adds fabric (as you have pointed out). Shorten the measurement in the back and you will emphasize the posterior cleavage. Shorten the measurement in front and you will emphasize the pudendum cleavage. In the case of men, shortening the measurement in the front creates cleavage as it cuts through his “package,” or creates what is called a “Mormon Camel Toe” in which the entire “package” is shoved to one side of the seam and the bulge is only there.

I have never made a pair of trousers without taking that measurement. It has resulted in some slanderous comments (my female customers call me a pervert, my male customers accuse me of being gay), but I consider it important enough to endure these slanders.

In addition, I have used this knowledge to get just the thing your articles are written to help readers avoid. (This is for Brett, who responded to the above post on October 25, 2006 with his regret that the camel toe can be fixed.) Some younger females wanted “boy pants,” that is undergarments with a center or crotch seam that otherwise fit like panties. They wanted these garments to emphasize the cleavage, both front and back, and panties with a center or crotch seam is what we determined was the best way to accomplish it. The combination of this little bit of information, use of stretch fabrics that are common for undergarments, and elastic thread for the crotch seams have resulted in “boy pants” that have made these customers very satisfied. Oh, did I mention that most of these customers either work or moonlight as exotic dancers. They were looking for “lounge wear,” that is garments to wear while they are not on the stage, but down on the floor hustling drinks. It allows them to look like their “panties” were painted on instead of pulled up, and this makes it easier to entice a male customer into buying them a drink. It also satisfies the State Liquor Control Board who refuse to allow nudity in any establishment that serves alcohol.

By way of history, we started to really notice the “camel toe” in the early eighties, while I was in college after the military. The debate at the time was over weather or not the young ladies knew that they were placing themselves on display in that manner. I won the debate when I mentioned a girl who was known for her modesty and chastity. She sported a very visible camel toe. That should have settled the issue, but to make sure, I had my wife take her aside and point it out to her. The following day she showed up in a skirt and it was weeks before she wore pants again. When she did start to wear trousers, they never lent themselves to such a display. From that, we concluded that she had not been aware of her camel toe, just the uncomfortable way her jeans fit in the crotch area.

Now days, I think that most young ladies proudly display their camel toes. But, while Shelly Winters is quoted as saying how disgusting nudity is, she continues that quote by saying that if she were young and in good shape she would probably believe that it is a boon to mankind.

Art Seaton

It’s not length so much that is the issue but it has to be in the proper place. The CF line was actually too short in one place, too long in another and one cannot borrow from the other to make the correction. Ex:
Waist is too high, trim it back. Yes, this shortens the already too short crotch line which is doubly why you lengthen the crotch curve by trimming and reshaping it.

Yes, I would imagine that if you only shortened the waist line, you’d have a worse CT. Sorry for the confusion but I hope this helps.

Of course none of this is conjecture is really necessary in a draft for something as loose fitting as what I am making, but I wanted to know your thoughts on this.