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	<title>Comments on: Knits are evil</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
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		<title>By: Bente</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-30440</link>
		<dc:creator>Bente</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-30440</guid>
		<description>Yehh, very, very interesting (sorry don&#039;t have time to read all now, but later)! Thinking about how many hours I lay down to reach a good fitted t-shirt for boys! Who understands this? The neck line have to be perfect, the armholes rightly curved, the shoulders perfect, the fit and look (all components and shape) sporty, but sophisticated etc. Then, talking to &quot;people&quot; that has some connection in the business try to tell me that the cost is too high? Sorry, but I hate crap!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yehh, very, very interesting (sorry don&#8217;t have time to read all now, but later)! Thinking about how many hours I lay down to reach a good fitted t-shirt for boys! Who understands this? The neck line have to be perfect, the armholes rightly curved, the shoulders perfect, the fit and look (all components and shape) sporty, but sophisticated etc. Then, talking to &#8220;people&#8221; that has some connection in the business try to tell me that the cost is too high? Sorry, but I hate crap!!</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Meyerink-Griffin</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-29909</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Meyerink-Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 16:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-29909</guid>
		<description>@ Jinjer Markley:T &quot;{snip} This is why, hands down, my favorite fabric to use for my super-tight fitted bellydance tops is old kimonos. Oh my god is that stuff elastic; even stuff that’s 30 years old! Whenever I see silk like that in stores it’s EXPENSIVE. {snip}&quot;

I&#039;ve purchased a few bolts of old (approx 25-50 years old; yellowed on outside layer and selvedges of the roll) kosode fabric (I don&#039;t remember the technical name for the precise garment; it&#039;s a very conservative style used for visiting friends, plain ground, very small damask details) that exhibited this quality.  I believe that it&#039;s due to the yarns being very tightly twisted prior to weaving, making it a form of crepe.  Other Japanese silk garments I&#039;ve seen did not exhibit this particular quality; it depends a lot on the intended use and the weaving process.  I know that there is a wealth of information about Japanese clothing available, but it appears that some of the most comprehensive are in, surprisingly, Japanese.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jinjer Markley:T &#8220;{snip} This is why, hands down, my favorite fabric to use for my super-tight fitted bellydance tops is old kimonos. Oh my god is that stuff elastic; even stuff that’s 30 years old! Whenever I see silk like that in stores it’s EXPENSIVE. {snip}&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve purchased a few bolts of old (approx 25-50 years old; yellowed on outside layer and selvedges of the roll) kosode fabric (I don&#8217;t remember the technical name for the precise garment; it&#8217;s a very conservative style used for visiting friends, plain ground, very small damask details) that exhibited this quality.  I believe that it&#8217;s due to the yarns being very tightly twisted prior to weaving, making it a form of crepe.  Other Japanese silk garments I&#8217;ve seen did not exhibit this particular quality; it depends a lot on the intended use and the weaving process.  I know that there is a wealth of information about Japanese clothing available, but it appears that some of the most comprehensive are in, surprisingly, Japanese.</p>
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		<title>By: sahara</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-20931</link>
		<dc:creator>sahara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-20931</guid>
		<description>Stuart and Jennifer, right on! 

Many houses need to learn the difference between CUT AND SEW KNITS, where the knitted fabric is essentially treated like a woven, sans the fit elements (i.e. darts), and FULL FASHIONED KNITS, where individual pieces are produced by mathematical calculation, and linked together. Skilled patternmaking is necessary to both methods, but the former is ruled more by price point–– ala´ the difference between a skirt from Club Monaco, and one from St. John; body type has nothing to do with either. 

I feel the rise of the junior sportswear sector is the culprit. I&#039;ve developed fabrics and sweaters for years, and it&#039;s in cut and sew knits where the degraded skill set for patternmaking has become the norm, aside of the garment–-you can mess up jeans and tops equally–-leading to the acceptance of cheap stores who sell &quot;seconds&quot; (yeah, I said it) as discounted &quot;quality&quot;.

Many companies attempt to save money by not hiring skilled patternmakers for cut and sew knits, allowing the woven patternmakers do it.  Woven designers will tell me, it&#039;s easier because I don&#039;t need to do darts or princess lines. In other words––it&#039;s easier to not know what you&#039;re doing, because the stretch will make up for it––skill degradation at its best! And the fabric isn&#039;t knitted well to begin with, but that&#039;s another issue.

At the end of the day, price point still rules––from poorly spun yarn, the cheap knitting of the fabric (circular knit tops biasing on you, no matter what your size), to shape-less patterns, drafted without regard to percentage of stretch of the badly knit fabric (&quot;just draft it a little smaller than the standard&quot;), to the distortion of the seams by bad sewing. If the price point is low enough, then folks buy it--they&#039;re not gonna wear it that long anyway. It&#039;s sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart and Jennifer, right on! </p>
<p>Many houses need to learn the difference between CUT AND SEW KNITS, where the knitted fabric is essentially treated like a woven, sans the fit elements (i.e. darts), and FULL FASHIONED KNITS, where individual pieces are produced by mathematical calculation, and linked together. Skilled patternmaking is necessary to both methods, but the former is ruled more by price point–– ala´ the difference between a skirt from Club Monaco, and one from St. John; body type has nothing to do with either. </p>
<p>I feel the rise of the junior sportswear sector is the culprit. I&#8217;ve developed fabrics and sweaters for years, and it&#8217;s in cut and sew knits where the degraded skill set for patternmaking has become the norm, aside of the garment–-you can mess up jeans and tops equally–-leading to the acceptance of cheap stores who sell &#8220;seconds&#8221; (yeah, I said it) as discounted &#8220;quality&#8221;.</p>
<p>Many companies attempt to save money by not hiring skilled patternmakers for cut and sew knits, allowing the woven patternmakers do it.  Woven designers will tell me, it&#8217;s easier because I don&#8217;t need to do darts or princess lines. In other words––it&#8217;s easier to not know what you&#8217;re doing, because the stretch will make up for it––skill degradation at its best! And the fabric isn&#8217;t knitted well to begin with, but that&#8217;s another issue.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, price point still rules––from poorly spun yarn, the cheap knitting of the fabric (circular knit tops biasing on you, no matter what your size), to shape-less patterns, drafted without regard to percentage of stretch of the badly knit fabric (&#8221;just draft it a little smaller than the standard&#8221;), to the distortion of the seams by bad sewing. If the price point is low enough, then folks buy it&#8211;they&#8217;re not gonna wear it that long anyway. It&#8217;s sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer S</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-13905</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 08:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-13905</guid>
		<description>I also just read this. I agree that sometimes people use stretchy materials as shortcuts, but knit patternmaking is NOT easy.  I have made hundreds of knit patterns and I actually think that it&#039;s more difficult than woven. I have also worked with woven (cottons, silk satins, chiffons, velvet, rayon, etc) and in general I think woven fabrics are more predictable. There are so many different kinds of stretchy fabrics that they all behave differently, shrinks differently. I agree that with knits more people(body types) can fit into the same garment but that doesn&#039;t mean that they&#039;ll look good in it. To make it look good worn needs a lot of skills in patternmaking also. I guess that depends on how much of a perfectionist the designer is. My ex boss was. And he had real fussy clients... So, IMHO good knits need as much work as wovens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also just read this. I agree that sometimes people use stretchy materials as shortcuts, but knit patternmaking is NOT easy.  I have made hundreds of knit patterns and I actually think that it&#8217;s more difficult than woven. I have also worked with woven (cottons, silk satins, chiffons, velvet, rayon, etc) and in general I think woven fabrics are more predictable. There are so many different kinds of stretchy fabrics that they all behave differently, shrinks differently. I agree that with knits more people(body types) can fit into the same garment but that doesn&#8217;t mean that they&#8217;ll look good in it. To make it look good worn needs a lot of skills in patternmaking also. I guess that depends on how much of a perfectionist the designer is. My ex boss was. And he had real fussy clients&#8230; So, IMHO good knits need as much work as wovens.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-1443</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-1443</guid>
		<description>I have followed &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/new_knit_wear_pattern_making_book.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link&lt;/a&gt; to this page and just want to say that as a stretch fit pattern maker I would whole heartedly agree with most of what everyone has said. There is very little out there to teach stretch (I do swimwear and other close fit patterns online). I haven&#039;t yet read the book referenced on the first link but intend to do so.

I know all to well the blank stares from college teachers, but in their defence this is still a relatively new area of fashion ... lycra in general use really only occured in the eighties. That means the industry spent the first 20 years working out what lycra was and it hasn&#039;t really filtered out to the public yet ... I&#039;m sure corsetry was a guarded secret in the early days back in history as well! Fashion teachers are usually people retired from the the industry early and start teaching at 45 years old ... meaning that&#039;d be around now. There are some forward thinking people but they are rare and, hopefully, treasured!

Thanks for a great site!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have followed <a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/new_knit_wear_pattern_making_book.html" rel="nofollow">this link</a> to this page and just want to say that as a stretch fit pattern maker I would whole heartedly agree with most of what everyone has said. There is very little out there to teach stretch (I do swimwear and other close fit patterns online). I haven&#8217;t yet read the book referenced on the first link but intend to do so.</p>
<p>I know all to well the blank stares from college teachers, but in their defence this is still a relatively new area of fashion &#8230; lycra in general use really only occured in the eighties. That means the industry spent the first 20 years working out what lycra was and it hasn&#8217;t really filtered out to the public yet &#8230; I&#8217;m sure corsetry was a guarded secret in the early days back in history as well! Fashion teachers are usually people retired from the the industry early and start teaching at 45 years old &#8230; meaning that&#8217;d be around now. There are some forward thinking people but they are rare and, hopefully, treasured!</p>
<p>Thanks for a great site!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah in Oregon</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-1442</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah in Oregon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-1442</guid>
		<description>I once worked for a designer who wanted me to develop a new knit shirt.  She &quot;hadn&#039;t decided&quot; on her customer&#039;s demographic, age, body shape or what size she was going to use as her size medium.  She did not tell me or show me who the fit model would be.  With all that (lacking) information, I draped the design on my own size 8 form, sticking to the proportions in her sketch.

She was horrified that I had draped the top. &quot;I&#039;ve never heard of knits being draped&quot; she said.

Obviously, it didn&#039;t work out with her.

I belive that draping is a perfectly good place to start when you are developing a totally new shape for a new market and are looking for good fit--even in a knit.  Infact, the more sophisticated the shape, the better draping works...for example dresses with gathering etc.

Any thoughts form other readers?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once worked for a designer who wanted me to develop a new knit shirt.  She &#8220;hadn&#8217;t decided&#8221; on her customer&#8217;s demographic, age, body shape or what size she was going to use as her size medium.  She did not tell me or show me who the fit model would be.  With all that (lacking) information, I draped the design on my own size 8 form, sticking to the proportions in her sketch.</p>
<p>She was horrified that I had draped the top. &#8220;I&#8217;ve never heard of knits being draped&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>Obviously, it didn&#8217;t work out with her.</p>
<p>I belive that draping is a perfectly good place to start when you are developing a totally new shape for a new market and are looking for good fit&#8211;even in a knit.  Infact, the more sophisticated the shape, the better draping works&#8230;for example dresses with gathering etc.</p>
<p>Any thoughts form other readers?</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-1441</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 06:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-1441</guid>
		<description>LaBelladonna and Dave,

The best and biggest sliver knitter in the states is Monterey Mills, Janesville, Wisconsin. Sliver knitting was invented in Wisconsin, hence, three of the remaining six domestic sliver knitters reside in the state. They were recently acquired by the country&#039;s oldest sliver knitter, Roller Fabrics (Milwaukee, WI). Their phone number is 888-276-5537.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LaBelladonna and Dave,</p>
<p>The best and biggest sliver knitter in the states is Monterey Mills, Janesville, Wisconsin. Sliver knitting was invented in Wisconsin, hence, three of the remaining six domestic sliver knitters reside in the state. They were recently acquired by the country&#8217;s oldest sliver knitter, Roller Fabrics (Milwaukee, WI). Their phone number is 888-276-5537.</p>
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		<title>By: La BellaDonna</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-1440</link>
		<dc:creator>La BellaDonna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-1440</guid>
		<description>Kathleen, thanks very much.  I would like to post exactly what I&#039;ve italicized; the &quot;...&quot; are indicators used in the legal field to indicate that it&#039;s a partial quote, and I will refer it to the correct entry, too.  And I really appreciate the permission to add your personal information.  The folks on the blog (it&#039;s bigfatblog.com) are actually none of them interested in dieting tips, or how to lose weight.  Some of them are vegetarian, some of them are not; some of them are fat, some of them are not.  They&#039;re mostly just looking for a way to get along peacably in the world.

Dave, thanks for the info on Glenoit.  I&#039;m not familiar with them myself, but I&#039;m going to hazard that Tex-Tenn is ... in Tennessee?  And they make ... Textiles?  If not, I&#039;ll find out when I google.  My understanding of faux furs (i.e., what my brain translated what I learned) was &quot;pile fabric with knit backing;&quot; that is, &quot;base knitted, fur added.&quot;  (Very old faux fur info, undoubtedly due for updating.) Not to be confused with a plush fabric, woven with an extra warp and cut.  For all I know, soon they&#039;ll be able to grow furred skin in petrie dishs to shape (like the human skin growth experiments), and we&#039;ll have real fur that never lived on an animal some day.

Kathleen, thanks again.  I did post the information, and I posted it here: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bigfatblog.com/forums/topic.php?id=311#post-3282&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.bigfatblog.com/forums/topic.php?id=311#post-3282&lt;/a&gt;

I trust it meets with your approval.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathleen, thanks very much.  I would like to post exactly what I&#8217;ve italicized; the &#8220;&#8230;&#8221; are indicators used in the legal field to indicate that it&#8217;s a partial quote, and I will refer it to the correct entry, too.  And I really appreciate the permission to add your personal information.  The folks on the blog (it&#8217;s bigfatblog.com) are actually none of them interested in dieting tips, or how to lose weight.  Some of them are vegetarian, some of them are not; some of them are fat, some of them are not.  They&#8217;re mostly just looking for a way to get along peacably in the world.</p>
<p>Dave, thanks for the info on Glenoit.  I&#8217;m not familiar with them myself, but I&#8217;m going to hazard that Tex-Tenn is &#8230; in Tennessee?  And they make &#8230; Textiles?  If not, I&#8217;ll find out when I google.  My understanding of faux furs (i.e., what my brain translated what I learned) was &#8220;pile fabric with knit backing;&#8221; that is, &#8220;base knitted, fur added.&#8221;  (Very old faux fur info, undoubtedly due for updating.) Not to be confused with a plush fabric, woven with an extra warp and cut.  For all I know, soon they&#8217;ll be able to grow furred skin in petrie dishs to shape (like the human skin growth experiments), and we&#8217;ll have real fur that never lived on an animal some day.</p>
<p>Kathleen, thanks again.  I did post the information, and I posted it here: <a href="http://www.bigfatblog.com/forums/topic.php?id=311#post-3282" rel="nofollow">http://www.bigfatblog.com/forums/topic.php?id=311#post-3282</a></p>
<p>I trust it meets with your approval.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-1439</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2005 00:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-1439</guid>
		<description>La BellaDonna,
Faux fur is actually a sliver knit. You can try contacting Susan Miller at Tex-Tenn (you know which state, right ? ) Glenoit is back in business under new ownership. I think the parent is called Hai Xing or something like that.They are based in China , with additional production facilities in Elmira, Ontario. Keep in mind they also sell complete garments/packages, so any designs you send them to confirm fabric etc.. can be subjected to &quot;interpretation&quot;. How big are your biceps, anyway ?
Dave
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>La BellaDonna,<br />
Faux fur is actually a sliver knit. You can try contacting Susan Miller at Tex-Tenn (you know which state, right ? ) Glenoit is back in business under new ownership. I think the parent is called Hai Xing or something like that.They are based in China , with additional production facilities in Elmira, Ontario. Keep in mind they also sell complete garments/packages, so any designs you send them to confirm fabric etc.. can be subjected to &#8220;interpretation&#8221;. How big are your biceps, anyway ?<br />
Dave</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/knits_are_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-1438</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2005/12/knits_are_evil/#comment-1438</guid>
		<description>La BellaDonna:
The blog is public. You can include that anywhere provided you cite the specific entry on my blog. Just don&#039;t cut and paste so as to take me out of context. And thanks.

On a personal level, I&#039;d appreciate it if you&#039;d mention I do not &quot;hate&quot; fat people. If it matters to your audience, I am a formerly morbidly obese person -from childhood. About 20 years ago, I lost 150lbs, so it is definitely &lt;strong&gt;not&lt;/strong&gt; a situation where I don&#039;t understand or have the arrogance of a naturally skinny person. If anyone cares to know my dieting tips (they usually do) I can say that the adoption of a low fat vegetarian diet is nice for staying trim.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>La BellaDonna:<br />
The blog is public. You can include that anywhere provided you cite the specific entry on my blog. Just don&#8217;t cut and paste so as to take me out of context. And thanks.</p>
<p>On a personal level, I&#8217;d appreciate it if you&#8217;d mention I do not &#8220;hate&#8221; fat people. If it matters to your audience, I am a formerly morbidly obese person -from childhood. About 20 years ago, I lost 150lbs, so it is definitely <strong>not</strong> a situation where I don&#8217;t understand or have the arrogance of a naturally skinny person. If anyone cares to know my dieting tips (they usually do) I can say that the adoption of a low fat vegetarian diet is nice for staying trim.</p>
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