3/4/2005 04:56:29 PM Eric said:
Um, well, I am the customer and I don’t think my comments are going to be nearly as detailed. I’m more of the “it’s pretty but large” type of customer, so … here goes:

Oh, wait, maybe a little background, first. I have a red ski jacket that I have had since about 1984. Really! It’s down and still quite warm with few tears (my fault) and with an occasional washing, it still looks okay. I think clothing should be like that. I really like the inside breast pocket because you can put a wallet in it, zip it, and it won’t fall out even when horsing around outside. There are plenty of external pockets big enough for gloves and hats.

This new coat is also very warm. I wanted something similar to a letter jacket, and this style is exactly right. The “designer” added the internal pocket, but while it is big and spill-resistant (not proof), I haven’t really tried playing in the snow or standing on my head as suggested. The internal pocket on the new jacket is a little too high – which is to say, a little higher than my old jacket. I had that jacket a long time (20 years), so I don’t know if it is *relatively* or *absolutely* too high. I’d guess absolutely, though.

BTW, I think this is an important enough feature that I requested it. I don’t shop enough to tell if designers have realized it, but we are becoming weighted down by portable electronic devices. I have a wallet, a PDA, and recently I started carrying a cell phone. In pants that fit snugly, you can’t get it all in the front pockets (and using the hip pockets either invites disaster, dead batteries, or chronic back problems). An older co-worker noted the other day that he wasn’t sure if his belt was capable of carrying the load anymore. So jacket pocket at least lets you spread the load in the winter. I don’t know what to do about the summer, given that cargo pants look too aptly named.

The jacket is too large. The oversize sleeves are comfortable, but I can definitely tell that you could reduce the size (diameter) of the sleeve and therefore the expense with no adverse effect on the wearer. The jacket is large enough to wear a sweater underneath and then some, so it is larger than I would have bought if I had a choice of sizes. Also, I didn’t realize it until looking in the mirror, but the shoulders make me look like one of those weight lifters who only works on his shoulders and arms. It’s way out of proportion.

The side pockets are a little high, but not high enough to be uncomfortable. However, it was obvious that resting my hands in there as I might normally do will stress the corners.

And that’s all I got to say about tha-at.
— Forest Gump

3/4/2005 09:25:28 PM Kathleen said:
I thought your comments were great, exactly what a fit model or customer should express. I also appreciated that you put designer in quotation marks since I don’t like to insult neither myself nor designers with the comparison (hopefully everyone understands the latter in the spirit it was intended). Lastly, I liked your explanation regarding the necessity of utility and pockets and I think the issue of features as a component of quality design should not continue to be minimized. Probably one of the things I dislike most about women’s rtw is the absence of pockets.

3/5/2005 12:18:23 AM Josh said:
Am I allowed to rip this coat a new one? lol I wasn’t sure if I could get in on this exercise too. For me the width of the welt pockets seem too narrow as well. It “feels” wimpy. I would like to see hefty wide welts. Especially since this is a man’s coat. I think it would bring more leather to the front of the coat as well helping to bring in the leather of the arms and making it more harmonious. Also I would like to see if using a solid red would help his frame look less wide like he spoke of.

3/5/2005 12:24:23 AM Josh said:
To make myself clearer cause I may not have, by width I do NOT mean the width of the pockets themselves but the welts which look to be .25 of leather on the outside. I would have went with half an inch I guess or a little more maybe.

3/6/2005 12:37:43 PM Eric said:
Maybe I missed something here, but I think that Josh’s comments are not per se “product review,” but rather “design review.”

My idea of a design review for the jacket is somewhat similar to a recent engineering review we did at work. An engineer was given a task to install a subnetwork. After he completed his design and estimate, we convened a review session. We didn’t spend much time reviewing the basic design because we already know he’s a competent engineer. If we spent time reviewing the design, we could never finish because you can’t satisfy everyone. Instead, we focused on whether

* he has sufficient network security and whether the written procedure or other documentation needs modification
* he has permission to modify the building
* the conditions clause of the contract should be modified to protect him from unreasonable interpretation by the customer
* the price for hangers was correct
* the labor should include more allowance for documentation and hangers.

I applied the same theory to this product review: I assumed the “designer” was competent and that the design elements were given, but I did want to point out where the execution had room for improvement. It seems to me that opening the design up for review is design by committee, and the result of that is … well, I give you the Pontiac Aztek. Google “ugliest vehicle” and it comes up first.

3/6/2005 05:06:23 PM Josh said:
lol Honey I’m in “Project Runway” land or something, just ignore me.

3/8/2005 02:30:42 PM Kathleen said:
I’ve been unable to come up with an appropriate -tactful- response until today when I found this quote: “Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance” (Sam Brown). A product review is an examination of substance, not style. To review the styling of the item, it’d be called a design review. In other words, in the product review of 12658, we’re looking at substance -not style- performance, structural integrity, costing, production issues, allocation etc. These are things that can be controlled. A product review satisfies substance.

Traditionally, technical people are not involved in style (design) review because we’re comparatively clueless. That’s why we’re not designers. If we intended to knock you off, we wouldn’t know which designs were worth copying. Only other designers would know the value of any design over another which is why it’s other designers that knock you off and not us. This is yet another reason to trust your tech support (sewing contractors, pattern makers, cutters etc) team.

Design reviews should be done well before a pattern is ever made. I really need to be clear about the differences in reviews, when they’re used and why. Unfortunately, I didn’t do that before I started posting product reviews so I apologize. Confusing the two types of reviews is common so comments regarding appearance or style were expected. Since design (style) reviews are done well before having a pattern and prototype made, you can see how throwing style issues into a technical review process can confuse things. It’s important to keep them separate because -trust me- you don’t want techies determining your style, just as techies don’t want designers determining substance. I’ll draft a better introduction, perhaps a review of reviews……

ps. The customer and I designed 12658. We like it. And about the pockets… Welt pocket lips are fairly standard; I’ve never seen double welts with lips that were wide as you described. Only single welts. I don’t even know if you can set up the reece (pocket) machine to sew a double welt with a set of 1/2″ wide lips. That’s an interesting question if you liked that look. I know you can do that by hand but I don’t know about machine. hmmm

3/8/2005 07:49:24 PM Josh said:
I wish I had never of opened my big mouth. Excuse me while I go sew it shut lol I know that comment sounded nasty or incredibly free-tongued but it was a mixture of misunderstanding the exercise and also thinking it was construction related. I didn’t mean to insult anyone but reading back I can see why it’s being misunderstood. I apologize profusely. I mean I love the coat and I didn’t at all mean to insult it. When I said “wimpy” I was referring to the welts and not Eric or the entire coat. I would never try and poke you Kathleen or you Eric with a hot poker. I’m here to learn and I don’t want to mess that up by making you guys mad at me.

I meant a 1/2 inch single welt, yes.

3/9/2005 04:47:29 PM Kathleen said:
Josh, I don’t always have the right words to say things the way that I feel them so I come out kind of harsh sometimes. I would be extremely distressed if you ceased making comments -we all make mistakes- this is a new dance, we’ll all learn it fumbling amid missteps. I would like to stress to you that you’ve provided a great service in your comments because it exposed a lack on my part; I needed to cover more ground. I want to educate DEs well. I cannot -continue to- assume that they know these things. If you hadn’t have commented, my mistake would have continued until someone else made a similar comment (just wait, you may have been the first but you will not be the last). You provided an educational opportunity that everyone needs and while I regret that you feel it may have come at your expense, I don’t regret your input in the slightest.

I look forward to your continued comments and questions and I thank you for a lesson learned.

3/9/2005 06:36:23 PM Eric said:
I just want to know what/where “Project Runway” land is. Is that the place populated by seemingly heroin-addicted girls who all happen to be built like young boys?

And just exactly what were you doing there? ;~)

3/9/2005 08:20:31 PM Josh said:
Are you kidding? I’m here to stay! I’m so happy this site exist. I feel like I’m home. I have faith in the internet again. I’m pretty use to saying the wrong things.

“Project Runway” was this incredible reality show on the BRAVO network. They took 12 up and coming designers and each week they had a challenge. As an example, make a dress out of what you can buy in the grocery store. And each week one person was eliminated. There will be a seaon 2 this year. This is the website. http://www.bravotv.com/Project_Runway/ Michael Kors was a judge on the show and he would say the funniest things. Like once he called someone’s outfit “Farty”. You can catch reruns of it all the time. It’s on tonight