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	<title>Comments on: Sock wars and Handmade</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jill</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9156</link>
		<dc:creator>jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 01:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9156</guid>
		<description>funny this post came up!  I have been currently rethinking whether or not I want to sell on Etsy and I have been considering against it.

1)  It's over saturated - way too much to sift through before someone will find my work

2) the copying - which I know can't be helped - but I've already started to limit the photo's of my work online

3) there is a ton of stuff that is terribly made - one such person I worked for before I will not mention their name - but I sewed for her on a contract basis - made next to nothing and was forced to make things in a way that was very poor quality (in my opinion)  This person does sell a fair bit but I know how it's made not well at all - serged edges to put a bag together with no straight stitched seams....arr...anyways I don't want to rant...

4)  I agree with the above comments about starting an indie/craft business - not many take it seriously and just start their business up without considering costing of materials/quality - I however have been taking my time now almost 3 years - most of this time I've spent educating myself so that the quality will be up to par when I begin selling - I could never sell something that I knew wasn't up to snuff - I don't want my name attached to that

I think I will launch with my own website and start doing higher end shows in combination with wholesale orders.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny this post came up!  I have been currently rethinking whether or not I want to sell on Etsy and I have been considering against it.</p>
<p>1)  It&#8217;s over saturated - way too much to sift through before someone will find my work</p>
<p>2) the copying - which I know can&#8217;t be helped - but I&#8217;ve already started to limit the photo&#8217;s of my work online</p>
<p>3) there is a ton of stuff that is terribly made - one such person I worked for before I will not mention their name - but I sewed for her on a contract basis - made next to nothing and was forced to make things in a way that was very poor quality (in my opinion)  This person does sell a fair bit but I know how it&#8217;s made not well at all - serged edges to put a bag together with no straight stitched seams&#8230;.arr&#8230;anyways I don&#8217;t want to rant&#8230;</p>
<p>4)  I agree with the above comments about starting an indie/craft business - not many take it seriously and just start their business up without considering costing of materials/quality - I however have been taking my time now almost 3 years - most of this time I&#8217;ve spent educating myself so that the quality will be up to par when I begin selling - I could never sell something that I knew wasn&#8217;t up to snuff - I don&#8217;t want my name attached to that</p>
<p>I think I will launch with my own website and start doing higher end shows in combination with wholesale orders.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9155</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9155</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If I wanted to, I could knit an entire garment with no seams, shaped to fit me - try that with an industrial knitting machine! &lt;/i&gt;

Lol, actually, you can do that with certain industrial knitting machines. We saw one at SPESA. &lt;a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/spesa_trip_report_kathleen_pt2.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;I wrote&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;this other company ... had a sweater knitting machine that did the whole ball of wax -without seaming- including collars and cuffs (it looked stitched) and genuine, I kid you not, underarm expansion gussets. JC said his back of the envelope costs were $16 per unit. The machine costs 180K and takes 30-40 minutes to knit an adult sized sweater.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/spesa_trip_report_jc_sprowls.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;JC wrote&lt;/a&gt; in his review:

&lt;blockquote&gt;...I was immediately drawn to the &lt;a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/%E2%80%9Dhttp://www.shimaseikiusa.com/shima7102_002.htm%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow"&gt;Shima Seiki&lt;/a&gt; whole garment knitting machines. It’s very sexy technology. At some point, I might consider contracting with someone to produce a few designs but that’s a while down the road. Nonetheless, keeping an eye on technological advancements is necessary and fun! Incidentally, there’s a used one for sale on eBay if anyone is interested.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

One of our regulars, &lt;a href="http://www.georginaestefania.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Georgina Estefania&lt;/a&gt;, has a German whole garment machine. I don't remember the manufacturer. She says they're pricey but that she loves hers. Her operation is also very lean, making to order. She says that sales have grown to such extent that she's planning to buy another one in 2008.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If I wanted to, I could knit an entire garment with no seams, shaped to fit me - try that with an industrial knitting machine! </i></p>
<p>Lol, actually, you can do that with certain industrial knitting machines. We saw one at SPESA. <a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/spesa_trip_report_kathleen_pt2.html" rel="nofollow">I wrote</a></p>
<blockquote><p>this other company &#8230; had a sweater knitting machine that did the whole ball of wax -without seaming- including collars and cuffs (it looked stitched) and genuine, I kid you not, underarm expansion gussets. JC said his back of the envelope costs were $16 per unit. The machine costs 180K and takes 30-40 minutes to knit an adult sized sweater.</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/spesa_trip_report_jc_sprowls.html" rel="nofollow">JC wrote</a> in his review:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;I was immediately drawn to the <a href="http://www.fashion-incubator.com/mt/archives/%E2%80%9Dhttp://www.shimaseikiusa.com/shima7102_002.htm%E2%80%9D" rel="nofollow">Shima Seiki</a> whole garment knitting machines. It’s very sexy technology. At some point, I might consider contracting with someone to produce a few designs but that’s a while down the road. Nonetheless, keeping an eye on technological advancements is necessary and fun! Incidentally, there’s a used one for sale on eBay if anyone is interested.</p></blockquote>
<p>One of our regulars, <a href="http://www.georginaestefania.com/" rel="nofollow">Georgina Estefania</a>, has a German whole garment machine. I don&#8217;t remember the manufacturer. She says they&#8217;re pricey but that she loves hers. Her operation is also very lean, making to order. She says that sales have grown to such extent that she&#8217;s planning to buy another one in 2008.</p>
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		<title>By: /anne...</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9154</link>
		<dc:creator>/anne...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 04:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9154</guid>
		<description>Hand knitting vs machine knitting - apart from the cool Japanese seamless knitting machines, the ones in factories are basically the same principle as a home knitting machine.

Anything you can do on a knitting machine you can do on knitting needles, and a whole lot more; I'm currently knitting a cardigan with seamless shaped sleeves. While I could do that on a knitting machine, I couldn't have a pattern at the same time, and it would be very difficult to have the sleeve other than a straight tube. If I wanted to, I could knit an entire garment with no seams, shaped to fit me - try that with an industrial knitting machine!

Most factories knit rough shapes, then use cut-and-sew techniques to finish the garment - have a look inside your knitwear. If it's joined by an overlocker, it's cut-and-sew. Fully-fashioned costs more to do, but is a better garment.

Two of the more interesting knitting writers are Elizabeth Zimmerman (I don't like what she designed, but for anyone who likes maths puzzles, her ideas are fascinating) and Barbara Walker's Knitting from the Top.

I might be using two sticks (actually, at the moment I'm using two high-tech metal sticks with specially designed tips joined by a flexible nylon cord), doesn't mean I'm limited at all!

ps - looms are for weaving; knitting machines create knitted fabric (and fabric is never 'hand loomed' - a loom is the mechanism to weave fabric, the technique is weaving; and knitting is NEVER loomed or woven, it's knitted!).

/anne...
who knits (hand and machine), sews, spins, weaves, dyes... and whatever else I've got time for!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hand knitting vs machine knitting - apart from the cool Japanese seamless knitting machines, the ones in factories are basically the same principle as a home knitting machine.</p>
<p>Anything you can do on a knitting machine you can do on knitting needles, and a whole lot more; I&#8217;m currently knitting a cardigan with seamless shaped sleeves. While I could do that on a knitting machine, I couldn&#8217;t have a pattern at the same time, and it would be very difficult to have the sleeve other than a straight tube. If I wanted to, I could knit an entire garment with no seams, shaped to fit me - try that with an industrial knitting machine!</p>
<p>Most factories knit rough shapes, then use cut-and-sew techniques to finish the garment - have a look inside your knitwear. If it&#8217;s joined by an overlocker, it&#8217;s cut-and-sew. Fully-fashioned costs more to do, but is a better garment.</p>
<p>Two of the more interesting knitting writers are Elizabeth Zimmerman (I don&#8217;t like what she designed, but for anyone who likes maths puzzles, her ideas are fascinating) and Barbara Walker&#8217;s Knitting from the Top.</p>
<p>I might be using two sticks (actually, at the moment I&#8217;m using two high-tech metal sticks with specially designed tips joined by a flexible nylon cord), doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m limited at all!</p>
<p>ps - looms are for weaving; knitting machines create knitted fabric (and fabric is never &#8216;hand loomed&#8217; - a loom is the mechanism to weave fabric, the technique is weaving; and knitting is NEVER loomed or woven, it&#8217;s knitted!).</p>
<p>/anne&#8230;<br />
who knits (hand and machine), sews, spins, weaves, dyes&#8230; and whatever else I&#8217;ve got time for!</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9153</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9153</guid>
		<description>I'm not big on jewelry (own almost none) but there's some very talented jewelry designers on etsy, not just bead stringers. Their work is quite impressive.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not big on jewelry (own almost none) but there&#8217;s some very talented jewelry designers on etsy, not just bead stringers. Their work is quite impressive.</p>
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		<title>By: Natasha</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9152</link>
		<dc:creator>Natasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9152</guid>
		<description>Funny I was just discussing this last night with my knitting circle ( yes I'm 28 and hand knit socks)

Oh and Kathleen I cut my self with scissors bad enough to need stitches is that a badge of honor?

I buy a lot of supplies on etsy as well as jewellery and silkscreened t shirts
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny I was just discussing this last night with my knitting circle ( yes I&#8217;m 28 and hand knit socks)</p>
<p>Oh and Kathleen I cut my self with scissors bad enough to need stitches is that a badge of honor?</p>
<p>I buy a lot of supplies on etsy as well as jewellery and silkscreened t shirts</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Bloodgood</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9151</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Bloodgood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9151</guid>
		<description>Those socks are so cool!  I love all the different patterns in every one of them.

I know that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 years to start making money at craft fairs and bazaars because people will see your stuff, think about it, come back next year, maybe buy, still think about it, then be ready to really by the next year.  So you have to keep going to get exposure.

I had some stuff on Etsy and only sold a couple of things.  I probably just needed to keep relisting it.  I found some dumb stuff there, yes, but also some stuff that was really cool that I would have bought if I'd had the money.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those socks are so cool!  I love all the different patterns in every one of them.</p>
<p>I know that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 years to start making money at craft fairs and bazaars because people will see your stuff, think about it, come back next year, maybe buy, still think about it, then be ready to really by the next year.  So you have to keep going to get exposure.</p>
<p>I had some stuff on Etsy and only sold a couple of things.  I probably just needed to keep relisting it.  I found some dumb stuff there, yes, but also some stuff that was really cool that I would have bought if I&#8217;d had the money.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna Carty</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9150</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna Carty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 21:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9150</guid>
		<description>Great post, Kathleen, but perhaps I can shed some light on why a person whose handmade items had a demand that might justify manufacture might none-the-less choose not to, even at the expense of not being able to make a living with their work. I once had a crocheted sweater that I had designed in a catalogue. I had seriously underpriced and the orders came in far faster than I could produce. Soon, I was under pressure from the cataloguer to "hire" other crocheters to do my sweater. I ordered a huge amount (for me) of yarn, and I tried out several crocheters. But their crocheting following my pattern did not end up having the same measurements, and their work was almost always not up to the quality of my own work, especially in the finishing. Impatient, the cataloguer decided to declare the sweater "sold out" leaving me with all the yarn. Doing even a great amount of my own work was OK, even when I was crocheting 14 hours per day. Everything involved with hiring others to do my designs was unpleasant. It just wasn't the way I wanted to spend my time. (I know, perhaps correct pricing could have prevented all this.) I don't know enough about licensing to know if it might present some of the same problems. (I should search your site, I guess.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Kathleen, but perhaps I can shed some light on why a person whose handmade items had a demand that might justify manufacture might none-the-less choose not to, even at the expense of not being able to make a living with their work. I once had a crocheted sweater that I had designed in a catalogue. I had seriously underpriced and the orders came in far faster than I could produce. Soon, I was under pressure from the cataloguer to &#8220;hire&#8221; other crocheters to do my sweater. I ordered a huge amount (for me) of yarn, and I tried out several crocheters. But their crocheting following my pattern did not end up having the same measurements, and their work was almost always not up to the quality of my own work, especially in the finishing. Impatient, the cataloguer decided to declare the sweater &#8220;sold out&#8221; leaving me with all the yarn. Doing even a great amount of my own work was OK, even when I was crocheting 14 hours per day. Everything involved with hiring others to do my designs was unpleasant. It just wasn&#8217;t the way I wanted to spend my time. (I know, perhaps correct pricing could have prevented all this.) I don&#8217;t know enough about licensing to know if it might present some of the same problems. (I should search your site, I guess.)</p>
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		<title>By: Becky O.</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9149</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky O.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9149</guid>
		<description>Well you hit on two sore points for me today. I wish I could knit. It all seams great fun, and like another poster pointed out, no plug is required. It is next on my to-do-list when free time finds me.

Next is etsy. I think it os a great place to test the waters or set up another marketing venue. The real fault lies in the fact many of the sellers there are very green (immature) at business practices. Imitation and downright thievery is rampant. The staff is great at letting everyone police themselves and turning a blind eye. Copycats aren't new and will never cease, but there are many instances of photographs of items are stolen and put up elsewhere. How can you sell something if you cant even take a picture of it?

The market will be the deciding factor in the end. And full disclosure-yes, I have been copied and found my styles on Etsy :)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well you hit on two sore points for me today. I wish I could knit. It all seams great fun, and like another poster pointed out, no plug is required. It is next on my to-do-list when free time finds me.</p>
<p>Next is etsy. I think it os a great place to test the waters or set up another marketing venue. The real fault lies in the fact many of the sellers there are very green (immature) at business practices. Imitation and downright thievery is rampant. The staff is great at letting everyone police themselves and turning a blind eye. Copycats aren&#8217;t new and will never cease, but there are many instances of photographs of items are stolen and put up elsewhere. How can you sell something if you cant even take a picture of it?</p>
<p>The market will be the deciding factor in the end. And full disclosure-yes, I have been copied and found my styles on Etsy <img src='http://www.fashion-incubator.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9148</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9148</guid>
		<description>love the post, Kathleen. I actually went in the opposite direction...from a traditional manufacturing business model to what some would consider "crafting"...I still "manufacture", though. I had really bad luck at craft fairs (appropriate product costing will do that) and opened an etsy shop this month and within 2 days I had a sales at the prices I set. I didn't think etsy was viable, but have changed my tune. It is a good way to test your designs and get feedback without the cost of attending craft fairs, though wholesaling is always (in my opinion) where you make the real money.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>love the post, Kathleen. I actually went in the opposite direction&#8230;from a traditional manufacturing business model to what some would consider &#8220;crafting&#8221;&#8230;I still &#8220;manufacture&#8221;, though. I had really bad luck at craft fairs (appropriate product costing will do that) and opened an etsy shop this month and within 2 days I had a sales at the prices I set. I didn&#8217;t think etsy was viable, but have changed my tune. It is a good way to test your designs and get feedback without the cost of attending craft fairs, though wholesaling is always (in my opinion) where you make the real money.</p>
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		<title>By: laurra</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9147</link>
		<dc:creator>laurra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2007/12/sock_wars_and_handmade/#comment-9147</guid>
		<description>thats a riot, so colorful, my mommy used to knit dresses when they where in fashion.You have to have a lot of patience, like math and graph paper.Needless to say thats why I dont knit.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thats a riot, so colorful, my mommy used to knit dresses when they where in fashion.You have to have a lot of patience, like math and graph paper.Needless to say thats why I dont knit.</p>
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