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	<title>Comments on: Vivisection: Project Runway</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-32320</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-32320</guid>
		<description>Kathleen, reading your book and your posts about the real sewn product manufacturing relieves so many of my fears of the big bad fashion industry...  Thank you.  Thank you.  It is such a weight off my shoulders to know that my intentions to design good garments doesn&#039;t HAVE to compete in the realm of fashion.  I spend so much of my time studying garment construction, understanding better fit and better fabric use...  I really don&#039;t have time to be on top of fashion right now.  BUT, I do think I know what kinds of clothes are good garments that we go-to when we open our closet for what to wear.  Your realism is good for us as we design in the face of Project Runway&#039;s scary hold on viewer&#039;s sense of fashion and/or garment-quality.  Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kathleen, reading your book and your posts about the real sewn product manufacturing relieves so many of my fears of the big bad fashion industry&#8230;  Thank you.  Thank you.  It is such a weight off my shoulders to know that my intentions to design good garments doesn&#8217;t HAVE to compete in the realm of fashion.  I spend so much of my time studying garment construction, understanding better fit and better fabric use&#8230;  I really don&#8217;t have time to be on top of fashion right now.  BUT, I do think I know what kinds of clothes are good garments that we go-to when we open our closet for what to wear.  Your realism is good for us as we design in the face of Project Runway&#8217;s scary hold on viewer&#8217;s sense of fashion and/or garment-quality.  Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-31844</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 19:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-31844</guid>
		<description>They are selecting runway models AS their fit models. The horror of it all. This practice certainly hasn&#039;t helped improve consumer knowledge of the industry at all. Btw, your assumptions are correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are selecting runway models AS their fit models. The horror of it all. This practice certainly hasn&#8217;t helped improve consumer knowledge of the industry at all. Btw, your assumptions are correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Meyerink-Griffin</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-31843</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Meyerink-Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-31843</guid>
		<description>...And I forgot to check the &#039;notify me&#039; box again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;And I forgot to check the &#8216;notify me&#8217; box again.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Meyerink-Griffin</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-31842</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Meyerink-Griffin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-31842</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t seen the show, and have no intention of doing so; I *hate* reality television. (If I wanted reality, I would hang out in the alley next to my apartment and watch the gang members and homeless people.)

Since I haven&#039;t seen the show, this question might sound a little dumb. Are the contestants selecting fit models or runway models?  I have been operating under the assumption that a fit model is fairly important, but a runway/photo model is only important insofar as they have the same size/body type as the fit model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen the show, and have no intention of doing so; I *hate* reality television. (If I wanted reality, I would hang out in the alley next to my apartment and watch the gang members and homeless people.)</p>
<p>Since I haven&#8217;t seen the show, this question might sound a little dumb. Are the contestants selecting fit models or runway models?  I have been operating under the assumption that a fit model is fairly important, but a runway/photo model is only important insofar as they have the same size/body type as the fit model.</p>
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		<title>By: Leighel</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-21783</link>
		<dc:creator>Leighel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Feb 2010 23:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-21783</guid>
		<description>I just happened to see the same episodes you are talking about because my daughter rented the the tapes and brought them to me. You see I don&#039;t watch tv either so it was my first time. I agree with you the show has nothing to do with what actually happens in the industry. I mentor some young people coming into the business and I constantly have to remove the &quot;Project Runway&quot; brainwashing. It&#039;s not easy but somebody&#039;s got to do it.I am going to put a link to this article on my website.
Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just happened to see the same episodes you are talking about because my daughter rented the the tapes and brought them to me. You see I don&#8217;t watch tv either so it was my first time. I agree with you the show has nothing to do with what actually happens in the industry. I mentor some young people coming into the business and I constantly have to remove the &#8220;Project Runway&#8221; brainwashing. It&#8217;s not easy but somebody&#8217;s got to do it.I am going to put a link to this article on my website.<br />
Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Olga</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-2025</link>
		<dc:creator>Olga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2025</guid>
		<description>Designing clothes is my hobby, I also like competitions and kind of enjoyed watching the first season. But then it&#039;s become unhealthy, seems like it&#039;s not about fashion design anymore. I think, personality is important in any industry, and Project Runway is just another TV show - not more than that.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Designing clothes is my hobby, I also like competitions and kind of enjoyed watching the first season. But then it&#8217;s become unhealthy, seems like it&#8217;s not about fashion design anymore. I think, personality is important in any industry, and Project Runway is just another TV show &#8211; not more than that.</p>
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		<title>By: La BellaDonna</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-2024</link>
		<dc:creator>La BellaDonna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2024</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re stronger than I am, Kathleen; I couldn&#039;t bear to actually watch all the episodes, since I don&#039;t enjoy that kind of interpersonal drama and competition.  My preference would be the KT show, starring Kathleen Fasanella and Tim Gunn, who show us What Works And Why, but I don&#039;t think I can get it sold.  What I did was look at the designs and read an awful lot of reactions.

The most interesting thing to come out of the entire show, I think, is that this season (and I haven&#039;t even looked at all the designs for it this year), is that Ass #2, Daniel, applied for a second opportunity.  He came back humbled, hardworking, talented, and standup.  Oh, and tidier!  He was a totally different person - someone with talent and a strong work ethic, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; someone I&#039;d work with and/or for.  He&#039;s one of the very few participants I wound up respecting.

Now, if someone could just edit everything so it&#039;s just the segments with Tim Gunn, I&#039;d buy that collection in a heartbeat.

I think Jay was a fool to be in such a big hurry to put his name on a failure, but I&#039;m not surprised.  Reminds me of a recent event at a local fabric store (the one that&#039;s closest to the design schools, as opposed to down on Fabric Row):

ME: scrounging through fabrics and clutching treasures

ENTER: Two young Austin Scarlett Wannabe&#039;s, talking loudly to each other, about needing &quot;point two five yards&quot; of whatever.  The ASWs accost the owner, and he shows them the velvets.  They are unaware of the difference between rayon velvet and silk velvet.  We didn&#039;t confuse them further with cotton velvet.  As they wafted past me, I stage-whispered, &quot;It&#039;s a &quot;quarter of a yard!&quot;  They looked at me in total non-comprehension.

As they paid for their fabric, they started to drift off, with the owner saying they were owed fifty cents in change.  They waved it off, and I couldn&#039;t stand it.  I called to them through the store to go back and get their change, and scolded them about it being a bad habit to get into.  It might not matter in school, but it would during a production run.

I&#039;m sure they thought I was a nut, but they got their change and wafted out.  The owner and I exchanged looks, and commentary.  He&#039;d been doing the eyeroll over the &quot;point two five yards,&quot; saying (to me) that nobody who&#039;s actually in the business talks like that.  We commiserated over the student population, since he gets to see a LOT of them.  His take?  These were two who were not going to make it.  That was my take, too.  But I&#039;ll bet this pair thinks they&#039;re going to be the Next Big Thing, and that all they need to do is land on Project Runway.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re stronger than I am, Kathleen; I couldn&#8217;t bear to actually watch all the episodes, since I don&#8217;t enjoy that kind of interpersonal drama and competition.  My preference would be the KT show, starring Kathleen Fasanella and Tim Gunn, who show us What Works And Why, but I don&#8217;t think I can get it sold.  What I did was look at the designs and read an awful lot of reactions.</p>
<p>The most interesting thing to come out of the entire show, I think, is that this season (and I haven&#8217;t even looked at all the designs for it this year), is that Ass #2, Daniel, applied for a second opportunity.  He came back humbled, hardworking, talented, and standup.  Oh, and tidier!  He was a totally different person &#8211; someone with talent and a strong work ethic, <i>and</i> someone I&#8217;d work with and/or for.  He&#8217;s one of the very few participants I wound up respecting.</p>
<p>Now, if someone could just edit everything so it&#8217;s just the segments with Tim Gunn, I&#8217;d buy that collection in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>I think Jay was a fool to be in such a big hurry to put his name on a failure, but I&#8217;m not surprised.  Reminds me of a recent event at a local fabric store (the one that&#8217;s closest to the design schools, as opposed to down on Fabric Row):</p>
<p>ME: scrounging through fabrics and clutching treasures</p>
<p>ENTER: Two young Austin Scarlett Wannabe&#8217;s, talking loudly to each other, about needing &#8220;point two five yards&#8221; of whatever.  The ASWs accost the owner, and he shows them the velvets.  They are unaware of the difference between rayon velvet and silk velvet.  We didn&#8217;t confuse them further with cotton velvet.  As they wafted past me, I stage-whispered, &#8220;It&#8217;s a &#8220;quarter of a yard!&#8221;  They looked at me in total non-comprehension.</p>
<p>As they paid for their fabric, they started to drift off, with the owner saying they were owed fifty cents in change.  They waved it off, and I couldn&#8217;t stand it.  I called to them through the store to go back and get their change, and scolded them about it being a bad habit to get into.  It might not matter in school, but it would during a production run.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure they thought I was a nut, but they got their change and wafted out.  The owner and I exchanged looks, and commentary.  He&#8217;d been doing the eyeroll over the &#8220;point two five yards,&#8221; saying (to me) that nobody who&#8217;s actually in the business talks like that.  We commiserated over the student population, since he gets to see a LOT of them.  His take?  These were two who were not going to make it.  That was my take, too.  But I&#8217;ll bet this pair thinks they&#8217;re going to be the Next Big Thing, and that all they need to do is land on Project Runway.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-2023</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2023</guid>
		<description>Heh. Shows like these remind me why I don&#039;t watch television.

I&#039;m hesitant to pound on people who went to design school, since I went myself (Bachelor of Science degree in Apparel Design and Production from Colorado State University, thank you very much). To paraphrase Michael Douglas&#039; character in &quot;Wonder Boys,&quot; you can&#039;t teach someone how to design. What I got was some tricks of the trade and exposure to broad concepts in textiles, production, draping, pattern making, economics, social-psychology of clothing, etc. Going to school doesn&#039;t make someone a successful designer (I should know). Tenacity, experience, contacts, intelligence, will serve a designer better than being able to make pretty pictures. While I don&#039;t &quot;idolize&quot; anybody, I do admire people like Ralph Lauren and Daymond John (FUBU). Polo started by selling ties at Brooks Brothers. FUBU got started Daymond making and selling tie-tops (People magazine, 3/17/97. I have the article taped to my wall).

I think a lot of the &quot;winners&quot; on those shows are washouts (must not be colorfast). The only winner is the TV station, and only if the show gets ratings. In order to get ratings, the show should be dramatic/funny/whatever. The more people who watch, the more they can charge advertisers.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. Shows like these remind me why I don&#8217;t watch television.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hesitant to pound on people who went to design school, since I went myself (Bachelor of Science degree in Apparel Design and Production from Colorado State University, thank you very much). To paraphrase Michael Douglas&#8217; character in &#8220;Wonder Boys,&#8221; you can&#8217;t teach someone how to design. What I got was some tricks of the trade and exposure to broad concepts in textiles, production, draping, pattern making, economics, social-psychology of clothing, etc. Going to school doesn&#8217;t make someone a successful designer (I should know). Tenacity, experience, contacts, intelligence, will serve a designer better than being able to make pretty pictures. While I don&#8217;t &#8220;idolize&#8221; anybody, I do admire people like Ralph Lauren and Daymond John (FUBU). Polo started by selling ties at Brooks Brothers. FUBU got started Daymond making and selling tie-tops (People magazine, 3/17/97. I have the article taped to my wall).</p>
<p>I think a lot of the &#8220;winners&#8221; on those shows are washouts (must not be colorfast). The only winner is the TV station, and only if the show gets ratings. In order to get ratings, the show should be dramatic/funny/whatever. The more people who watch, the more they can charge advertisers.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-2022</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2022</guid>
		<description>I love Project Runway.  I&#039;m aware that it&#039;s a game, and it doesn&#039;t bother me.  I think that it&#039;s great that the competitors have to design, draft/drape, cut, and sew everything themselves, albeit under contrived circumstances.  &quot;Real&quot; designers (and we have some great ones in my little town) have to do a lot of that work themselves, and don&#039;t make much money from it.  I see too many teenagers who think that designing is just about drawing a pretty picture of a girl in a prom dress and having someone else do all the grunt work.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Project Runway.  I&#8217;m aware that it&#8217;s a game, and it doesn&#8217;t bother me.  I think that it&#8217;s great that the competitors have to design, draft/drape, cut, and sew everything themselves, albeit under contrived circumstances.  &#8220;Real&#8221; designers (and we have some great ones in my little town) have to do a lot of that work themselves, and don&#8217;t make much money from it.  I see too many teenagers who think that designing is just about drawing a pretty picture of a girl in a prom dress and having someone else do all the grunt work.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan McElroy</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/comment-page-1/#comment-2021</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan McElroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2006 02:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2021</guid>
		<description>I saw bits of this show for the first time this week and couldn&#039;t really sit through it.  But two comments on Kathleen&#039;s post above really set me to thinking all day:  One, that it&#039;s a &quot;game show&quot;.  How true!  That&#039;s more perceptive than it seems.  Flashing lights, celebrity one-liners and prizes behind curtains are boring, so now we have game shows with pseudo-reality backdrops to bring in viewers so somebody can sell cars or deoderant or whatever else is advertised. (The real reason for the show, after all) It doesn&#039;t need to be really real if viewers keep watching the commercials.

The second comment was that it might not portray the real world but it does portray at least in some manner the &quot;real&quot; world of the fashion design school.  That is (probably--I&#039;ve no direct experience) absolutely spot-on.  I believe one of the problems with prima donna designers is not that they&#039;re inherently arrogant, but they&#039;ve been sold in some ways a bill of goods by the design schools.  I.e., &quot;You (the student) pay us big bucks so we can make you into a &quot;designer&quot; who can demand a big-bucks salary when you graduate, though actually all we&#039;ve done is exchanged xx years of our classes for your big bucks so you can go out there and compete with everybody else for work when they&#039;re over.  Hopefully we&#039;ve given you some advantage, but of course there&#039;s no guarantee of that--if there were we&#039;d find a job for you when you leave.&quot;

That&#039;s a very cynical view of higher education, and I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll get some heat for it, but I lived for decades in the academic world, and I stand by it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw bits of this show for the first time this week and couldn&#8217;t really sit through it.  But two comments on Kathleen&#8217;s post above really set me to thinking all day:  One, that it&#8217;s a &#8220;game show&#8221;.  How true!  That&#8217;s more perceptive than it seems.  Flashing lights, celebrity one-liners and prizes behind curtains are boring, so now we have game shows with pseudo-reality backdrops to bring in viewers so somebody can sell cars or deoderant or whatever else is advertised. (The real reason for the show, after all) It doesn&#8217;t need to be really real if viewers keep watching the commercials.</p>
<p>The second comment was that it might not portray the real world but it does portray at least in some manner the &#8220;real&#8221; world of the fashion design school.  That is (probably&#8211;I&#8217;ve no direct experience) absolutely spot-on.  I believe one of the problems with prima donna designers is not that they&#8217;re inherently arrogant, but they&#8217;ve been sold in some ways a bill of goods by the design schools.  I.e., &#8220;You (the student) pay us big bucks so we can make you into a &#8220;designer&#8221; who can demand a big-bucks salary when you graduate, though actually all we&#8217;ve done is exchanged xx years of our classes for your big bucks so you can go out there and compete with everybody else for work when they&#8217;re over.  Hopefully we&#8217;ve given you some advantage, but of course there&#8217;s no guarantee of that&#8211;if there were we&#8217;d find a job for you when you leave.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very cynical view of higher education, and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll get some heat for it, but I lived for decades in the academic world, and I stand by it.</p>
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