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	<title>Comments on: Vivisection: Project Runway</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Olga</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2025</link>
		<dc:creator>Olga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2025</guid>
		<description>Designing clothes is my hobby, I also like competitions and kind of enjoyed watching the first season. But then it's become unhealthy, seems like it's not about fashion design anymore. I think, personality is important in any industry, and Project Runway is just another TV show - not more than that.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Designing clothes is my hobby, I also like competitions and kind of enjoyed watching the first season. But then it&#8217;s become unhealthy, seems like it&#8217;s not about fashion design anymore. I think, personality is important in any industry, and Project Runway is just another TV show - not more than that.</p>
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		<title>By: La BellaDonna</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2024</link>
		<dc:creator>La BellaDonna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2024</guid>
		<description>You're stronger than I am, Kathleen; I couldn't bear to actually watch all the episodes, since I don't enjoy that kind of interpersonal drama and competition.  My preference would be the KT show, starring Kathleen Fasanella and Tim Gunn, who show us What Works And Why, but I don't think I can get it sold.  What I did was look at the designs and read an awful lot of reactions.

The most interesting thing to come out of the entire show, I think, is that this season (and I haven't even looked at all the designs for it this year), is that Ass #2, Daniel, applied for a second opportunity.  He came back humbled, hardworking, talented, and standup.  Oh, and tidier!  He was a totally different person - someone with talent and a strong work ethic, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; someone I'd work with and/or for.  He's one of the very few participants I wound up respecting.

Now, if someone could just edit everything so it's just the segments with Tim Gunn, I'd buy that collection in a heartbeat.

I think Jay was a fool to be in such a big hurry to put his name on a failure, but I'm not surprised.  Reminds me of a recent event at a local fabric store (the one that's closest to the design schools, as opposed to down on Fabric Row):

ME: scrounging through fabrics and clutching treasures

ENTER: Two young Austin Scarlett Wannabe's, talking loudly to each other, about needing "point two five yards" of whatever.  The ASWs accost the owner, and he shows them the velvets.  They are unaware of the difference between rayon velvet and silk velvet.  We didn't confuse them further with cotton velvet.  As they wafted past me, I stage-whispered, "It's a "quarter of a yard!"  They looked at me in total non-comprehension.

As they paid for their fabric, they started to drift off, with the owner saying they were owed fifty cents in change.  They waved it off, and I couldn't stand it.  I called to them through the store to go back and get their change, and scolded them about it being a bad habit to get into.  It might not matter in school, but it would during a production run.

I'm sure they thought I was a nut, but they got their change and wafted out.  The owner and I exchanged looks, and commentary.  He'd been doing the eyeroll over the "point two five yards," saying (to me) that nobody who's actually in the business talks like that.  We commiserated over the student population, since he gets to see a LOT of them.  His take?  These were two who were not going to make it.  That was my take, too.  But I'll bet this pair thinks they're going to be the Next Big Thing, and that all they need to do is land on Project Runway.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re stronger than I am, Kathleen; I couldn&#8217;t bear to actually watch all the episodes, since I don&#8217;t enjoy that kind of interpersonal drama and competition.  My preference would be the KT show, starring Kathleen Fasanella and Tim Gunn, who show us What Works And Why, but I don&#8217;t think I can get it sold.  What I did was look at the designs and read an awful lot of reactions.</p>
<p>The most interesting thing to come out of the entire show, I think, is that this season (and I haven&#8217;t even looked at all the designs for it this year), is that Ass #2, Daniel, applied for a second opportunity.  He came back humbled, hardworking, talented, and standup.  Oh, and tidier!  He was a totally different person - someone with talent and a strong work ethic, <i>and</i> someone I&#8217;d work with and/or for.  He&#8217;s one of the very few participants I wound up respecting.</p>
<p>Now, if someone could just edit everything so it&#8217;s just the segments with Tim Gunn, I&#8217;d buy that collection in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>I think Jay was a fool to be in such a big hurry to put his name on a failure, but I&#8217;m not surprised.  Reminds me of a recent event at a local fabric store (the one that&#8217;s closest to the design schools, as opposed to down on Fabric Row):</p>
<p>ME: scrounging through fabrics and clutching treasures</p>
<p>ENTER: Two young Austin Scarlett Wannabe&#8217;s, talking loudly to each other, about needing &#8220;point two five yards&#8221; of whatever.  The ASWs accost the owner, and he shows them the velvets.  They are unaware of the difference between rayon velvet and silk velvet.  We didn&#8217;t confuse them further with cotton velvet.  As they wafted past me, I stage-whispered, &#8220;It&#8217;s a &#8220;quarter of a yard!&#8221;  They looked at me in total non-comprehension.</p>
<p>As they paid for their fabric, they started to drift off, with the owner saying they were owed fifty cents in change.  They waved it off, and I couldn&#8217;t stand it.  I called to them through the store to go back and get their change, and scolded them about it being a bad habit to get into.  It might not matter in school, but it would during a production run.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure they thought I was a nut, but they got their change and wafted out.  The owner and I exchanged looks, and commentary.  He&#8217;d been doing the eyeroll over the &#8220;point two five yards,&#8221; saying (to me) that nobody who&#8217;s actually in the business talks like that.  We commiserated over the student population, since he gets to see a LOT of them.  His take?  These were two who were not going to make it.  That was my take, too.  But I&#8217;ll bet this pair thinks they&#8217;re going to be the Next Big Thing, and that all they need to do is land on Project Runway.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2023</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 01:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2023</guid>
		<description>Heh. Shows like these remind me why I don't watch television.

I'm hesitant to pound on people who went to design school, since I went myself (Bachelor of Science degree in Apparel Design and Production from Colorado State University, thank you very much). To paraphrase Michael Douglas' character in "Wonder Boys," you can't teach someone how to design. What I got was some tricks of the trade and exposure to broad concepts in textiles, production, draping, pattern making, economics, social-psychology of clothing, etc. Going to school doesn't make someone a successful designer (I should know). Tenacity, experience, contacts, intelligence, will serve a designer better than being able to make pretty pictures. While I don't "idolize" anybody, I do admire people like Ralph Lauren and Daymond John (FUBU). Polo started by selling ties at Brooks Brothers. FUBU got started Daymond making and selling tie-tops (People magazine, 3/17/97. I have the article taped to my wall).

I think a lot of the "winners" on those shows are washouts (must not be colorfast). The only winner is the TV station, and only if the show gets ratings. In order to get ratings, the show should be dramatic/funny/whatever. The more people who watch, the more they can charge advertisers.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. Shows like these remind me why I don&#8217;t watch television.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hesitant to pound on people who went to design school, since I went myself (Bachelor of Science degree in Apparel Design and Production from Colorado State University, thank you very much). To paraphrase Michael Douglas&#8217; character in &#8220;Wonder Boys,&#8221; you can&#8217;t teach someone how to design. What I got was some tricks of the trade and exposure to broad concepts in textiles, production, draping, pattern making, economics, social-psychology of clothing, etc. Going to school doesn&#8217;t make someone a successful designer (I should know). Tenacity, experience, contacts, intelligence, will serve a designer better than being able to make pretty pictures. While I don&#8217;t &#8220;idolize&#8221; anybody, I do admire people like Ralph Lauren and Daymond John (FUBU). Polo started by selling ties at Brooks Brothers. FUBU got started Daymond making and selling tie-tops (People magazine, 3/17/97. I have the article taped to my wall).</p>
<p>I think a lot of the &#8220;winners&#8221; on those shows are washouts (must not be colorfast). The only winner is the TV station, and only if the show gets ratings. In order to get ratings, the show should be dramatic/funny/whatever. The more people who watch, the more they can charge advertisers.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2022</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2022</guid>
		<description>I love Project Runway.  I'm aware that it's a game, and it doesn't bother me.  I think that it's great that the competitors have to design, draft/drape, cut, and sew everything themselves, albeit under contrived circumstances.  "Real" designers (and we have some great ones in my little town) have to do a lot of that work themselves, and don't make much money from it.  I see too many teenagers who think that designing is just about drawing a pretty picture of a girl in a prom dress and having someone else do all the grunt work.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Project Runway.  I&#8217;m aware that it&#8217;s a game, and it doesn&#8217;t bother me.  I think that it&#8217;s great that the competitors have to design, draft/drape, cut, and sew everything themselves, albeit under contrived circumstances.  &#8220;Real&#8221; designers (and we have some great ones in my little town) have to do a lot of that work themselves, and don&#8217;t make much money from it.  I see too many teenagers who think that designing is just about drawing a pretty picture of a girl in a prom dress and having someone else do all the grunt work.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan McElroy</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2021</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan McElroy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2006 02:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2021</guid>
		<description>I saw bits of this show for the first time this week and couldn't really sit through it.  But two comments on Kathleen's post above really set me to thinking all day:  One, that it's a "game show".  How true!  That's more perceptive than it seems.  Flashing lights, celebrity one-liners and prizes behind curtains are boring, so now we have game shows with pseudo-reality backdrops to bring in viewers so somebody can sell cars or deoderant or whatever else is advertised. (The real reason for the show, after all) It doesn't need to be really real if viewers keep watching the commercials.

The second comment was that it might not portray the real world but it does portray at least in some manner the "real" world of the fashion design school.  That is (probably--I've no direct experience) absolutely spot-on.  I believe one of the problems with prima donna designers is not that they're inherently arrogant, but they've been sold in some ways a bill of goods by the design schools.  I.e., "You (the student) pay us big bucks so we can make you into a "designer" who can demand a big-bucks salary when you graduate, though actually all we've done is exchanged xx years of our classes for your big bucks so you can go out there and compete with everybody else for work when they're over.  Hopefully we've given you some advantage, but of course there's no guarantee of that--if there were we'd find a job for you when you leave."

That's a very cynical view of higher education, and I'm sure I'll get some heat for it, but I lived for decades in the academic world, and I stand by it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw bits of this show for the first time this week and couldn&#8217;t really sit through it.  But two comments on Kathleen&#8217;s post above really set me to thinking all day:  One, that it&#8217;s a &#8220;game show&#8221;.  How true!  That&#8217;s more perceptive than it seems.  Flashing lights, celebrity one-liners and prizes behind curtains are boring, so now we have game shows with pseudo-reality backdrops to bring in viewers so somebody can sell cars or deoderant or whatever else is advertised. (The real reason for the show, after all) It doesn&#8217;t need to be really real if viewers keep watching the commercials.</p>
<p>The second comment was that it might not portray the real world but it does portray at least in some manner the &#8220;real&#8221; world of the fashion design school.  That is (probably&#8211;I&#8217;ve no direct experience) absolutely spot-on.  I believe one of the problems with prima donna designers is not that they&#8217;re inherently arrogant, but they&#8217;ve been sold in some ways a bill of goods by the design schools.  I.e., &#8220;You (the student) pay us big bucks so we can make you into a &#8220;designer&#8221; who can demand a big-bucks salary when you graduate, though actually all we&#8217;ve done is exchanged xx years of our classes for your big bucks so you can go out there and compete with everybody else for work when they&#8217;re over.  Hopefully we&#8217;ve given you some advantage, but of course there&#8217;s no guarantee of that&#8211;if there were we&#8217;d find a job for you when you leave.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very cynical view of higher education, and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll get some heat for it, but I lived for decades in the academic world, and I stand by it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2020</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2020</guid>
		<description>Hi all:

I really agree with Kathleen. And it's refreshing to hear. MAny people ask me if I am a die hard fan of PR. The whole idea just offends me. I have to work really hard to get my stuff out there, it's like a competition with the world....why do I need to see it re-enacted on TV. The worst part of it, is that I was actually starting to think I was being stupid for feeling that way!!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all:</p>
<p>I really agree with Kathleen. And it&#8217;s refreshing to hear. MAny people ask me if I am a die hard fan of PR. The whole idea just offends me. I have to work really hard to get my stuff out there, it&#8217;s like a competition with the world&#8230;.why do I need to see it re-enacted on TV. The worst part of it, is that I was actually starting to think I was being stupid for feeling that way!!</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2019</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 03:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2019</guid>
		<description>I'm a brand new reader - not in the industry at all - simply fascinated by the business side of it.

I do come from a fine arts background and was in an industrial design program at one university and graduated with fine arts/graphic design degree from another.

The reason that I like Project Runway so much is that it really captures the experience of being in a competitive art program (at least in my experience). Of the 100+ people who entered the program I graduated from, only a handful graduated.

But, that educational environment was a fantasy world - much like the one portrayed on Project Runway (and I work in a totally different field now - not even using my degree). Professors opinions were subjective and hypocritical. Real world production was not a consideration. In many cases projects that could meet production standards were denigrated the most severely in critiques.

I'm not really sure what the producers of Project Runway are trying to depict. The real fashion world? That seems unlikely. They've done a great job of capturing the fantasy world of many college fine art/design programs and I enjoy it for what it is. Glad that it's not me up there!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a brand new reader - not in the industry at all - simply fascinated by the business side of it.</p>
<p>I do come from a fine arts background and was in an industrial design program at one university and graduated with fine arts/graphic design degree from another.</p>
<p>The reason that I like Project Runway so much is that it really captures the experience of being in a competitive art program (at least in my experience). Of the 100+ people who entered the program I graduated from, only a handful graduated.</p>
<p>But, that educational environment was a fantasy world - much like the one portrayed on Project Runway (and I work in a totally different field now - not even using my degree). Professors opinions were subjective and hypocritical. Real world production was not a consideration. In many cases projects that could meet production standards were denigrated the most severely in critiques.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really sure what the producers of Project Runway are trying to depict. The real fashion world? That seems unlikely. They&#8217;ve done a great job of capturing the fantasy world of many college fine art/design programs and I enjoy it for what it is. Glad that it&#8217;s not me up there!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2018</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2018</guid>
		<description>Milan,
These producers don't have their heart in the right places at all. They are doing the industry a major disservice by the way they are portraying it. Reality TV has created a need for subject matter, and this year it is "high fashion". What's next ? " A day in the life of a Walmart Greeter " ? . Their hearts are in their back pocket.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milan,<br />
These producers don&#8217;t have their heart in the right places at all. They are doing the industry a major disservice by the way they are portraying it. Reality TV has created a need for subject matter, and this year it is &#8220;high fashion&#8221;. What&#8217;s next ? &#8221; A day in the life of a Walmart Greeter &#8221; ? . Their hearts are in their back pocket.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2017</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 17:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2017</guid>
		<description>Milan, Regardless of how you feel about the show, Kathleen is right to say what she's saying if for only to educate people the reality of the apparel industry. A lot of people watch the show and think it is the reality of fashion. It's important that someone explain otherwise. I think it's safe to say Kathleen is the first to do so.

Where does Kathleen say that fashion is a dying part of the industry? She says it's a small part of the industry. Doesn't mean it's dying. It's probably always been a small part of the industry.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milan, Regardless of how you feel about the show, Kathleen is right to say what she&#8217;s saying if for only to educate people the reality of the apparel industry. A lot of people watch the show and think it is the reality of fashion. It&#8217;s important that someone explain otherwise. I think it&#8217;s safe to say Kathleen is the first to do so.</p>
<p>Where does Kathleen say that fashion is a dying part of the industry? She says it&#8217;s a small part of the industry. Doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s dying. It&#8217;s probably always been a small part of the industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Kimball</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2016</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Kimball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 17:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/02/vivisection_project_runway/#comment-2016</guid>
		<description>Milan:  "almost every point you brought up is sort of obvious to the average viewer"

Unfortunately, my perspective is that they're not.  I don't have TV either and only glanced through the web site stuff on the first season (never made it to the end), and am fairly isolated up here in the mountains, but I can't tell you how many times in the past year someone has introduced me and had the new acquaintance respond, "like on PR?!" having a very difficult time squishing me into that weird skewed box.  These were not stupid or ignorant people, either, just responding to the pervasive influence this (alas, successful) show has splashed into too many brains.

Kathleen has spent a major part of her life deliniating the reality of this business for D-E's.  If anything, her response is amazingly restrained.

"Reality TV" may be the oxymoron (emphasis on moron) of the 21st century.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milan:  &#8220;almost every point you brought up is sort of obvious to the average viewer&#8221;</p>
<p>Unfortunately, my perspective is that they&#8217;re not.  I don&#8217;t have TV either and only glanced through the web site stuff on the first season (never made it to the end), and am fairly isolated up here in the mountains, but I can&#8217;t tell you how many times in the past year someone has introduced me and had the new acquaintance respond, &#8220;like on PR?!&#8221; having a very difficult time squishing me into that weird skewed box.  These were not stupid or ignorant people, either, just responding to the pervasive influence this (alas, successful) show has splashed into too many brains.</p>
<p>Kathleen has spent a major part of her life deliniating the reality of this business for D-E&#8217;s.  If anything, her response is amazingly restrained.</p>
<p>&#8220;Reality TV&#8221; may be the oxymoron (emphasis on moron) of the 21st century.</p>
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