Thanks for responding so kindly. As always, when something isn’t coming together for me on the blog it’s because I’m missing so much of real life.

Sorry about the catty twits.

Hugs!

Oh, and their teachers are bitter, twisted and catty.

I only lasted a year - not helped by the fact that I could sew better than my teacher (and I know a lot more now).

No, I didn’t start a clothing line and I also don’t think I’m over interpreting Bethany. The assumption still stands that a service provider is close to their customer. Likewise, I had no connections and a paltry education. It’s immaterial that I wasn’t manufacturing; I’m a service provider. I can understand how you’d think I was over-interpreting tho, you’d have to have witnessed the (still) never ending deprecating remarks I’ve had directed at me because I don’t live in a garment district. People who live in those areas think the world revolves around them.

Here’s one example:
When we went to SPESA last May, Eric and I were visiting the FIT booth staffed by four young students. I was genuinely pleased to see them there and thought to ask about their school experience. They TOTALLY disregarded my question. One of the girls picked at my badge as I was leaning over the table and she squealed -and I do mean SQUEALED- “New Mexico!” “Ohmigod, she lives in New Mexico and she thinks she works in the garment industry!” tee hee hee, twitter twitter, turning to each other amid snarky giggling. They never did answer my question. They totally ignored me. Eric was dumbstruck. I was shocked.

All I could think to say was something along the lines of “if you’re the best we have to look forward to, we’re in real trouble”. If there were such a thing as black listing in the industry, they made the best case ever to be included. I doubt it’ll ever come to that tho. With those attitudes, they’ll come to naught all by themselves. That’s what I tell myself every time I think that I should have written down their names…

That said tho, I think these NY students were the exception to the rule (but why are students in general so frigging catty?). People always say that people from NY are rude but I’ve found that there are more rude DEs in LA than there are rude DEs in NY. I thought about it a bit and I think it’s because NY is less transient than LA. There are more relationships based on longevity. In LA, people come and go every day, everyone is disposable. In NY, people have been in the business for generations and they have long memories. If you do someone dirty there, more people with longer histories will know it. I think NY’ers see the value in having better relationships. It’s harder to go to NY and get discovered and make a go of it than in LA, so most of their talent is home-grown (and often, with established relations).

If you have zero experience in the business you shouldn’t start a line of clothing, expecially if you don’t live near a center of industry. There are too many variables where you can loose too much money.

We had no experience in the apparel world at all when we started. We also had no jobs and no source of income and are about as far away from New York and LA as you can be in the continental US.

Knowledge, experience and money can help, but tenacity, smarts, and a willingness to learn can go a long, long way in this business.

TECHNICAL DESIGNER:
Working for a global brands (producing off shore) forced me to take my communication skills to the next level and leave ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM FOR ASSUMPTIONS.
This means that if it isn’t in writing, it might as well not be there at all (regardless of distance)

DE:
Many years ago I got stiffed by a couple of domestic factories that quite simply couldn’t be bothered to produce my orders but obviously didn’t have a problem taking my money to “secure a production slot”… Even with my technical and production background I wasn’t counting on them simply NOT WILLING to honour their contract.

SERVICE PROVIDER:
I decided to start offering services to DE’s in 1997 because I was tired of the corporate rat race and didn’t want for someone else to go through what I went through… Unfortunately these days I get at least 1 DE a week who comes with a horror story and desperately needs someone to come and clean up the mess… (that is at least 52 DE’s a year) In most cases they don’t have anything in writing so they can’t even justify going to small claims to try and recover some money.

So, while all the research and industry know how may get you there a bit easier, there is no substitute for effective communication and constant follow up.

Someone once described stock trading as the kind of business where you could make all the necessary mistakes in two years and then go on to a successful career. I think the fashion business is signicantly harder than that stock trading. It will take me a dozen years to make all the necessary mistakes. But hey, that’s life.

Certainly if you don’t have, or obtain, business savvy then you’re involved in a hobby, not a career.

And I belive that it IS possible to build a business outside New York/LA. If you are in those two towns it is too easy to get stuck thinking like everyone in the business because that is all you see.

Outside of those towns I think you have a better opportunity to find new products, niches and ways of doing things. So good luck to Colette Jones — don’t you ever quit!

I think Bethany makes some valid points, but I don’t think you necessarily have to work in the industry before you’re able to work in the industry I think you have to have the ability to recognize what you know and what you don’t know. (does that make sense?)

I think realizing what things fall outside of your skill set is the most important thing. I, for one, know that I don’t know near enough about patternmaking or the whole garment-making process to actually start a business doing it and I would never spend a penny without researching and learning more (like reading Kathleen’s book). But then again, I’m also an engineer and somewhat detail-oriented. I like to know all the variables before I attempt to solve the equation
But, there are a lot of people who will watch a few episodes of Project Runway or see that [insert celebrity of the week] has their own fashion line and think that qualifies them to start a fashion business. I agree with Kathleen that there are a lot of people out there with this kind of arrogant attitude who think that no one can teach them anything they don’t already know. These are the types who will spend ridiculous amounts of money, only to wonder why they failed.

I think it’s entirely possible for newbies to succeed, provided they’re willing to shelve their egos and take advice from experts. You also can’t expect overnight success and you need to take the time to learn the ins and outs of your business. Some can do this with lots of research, others can take Bethany’s approach and put in some hands-on time working in the industry.

This kind of thing goes for any type business. Sometimes, the best way to learn is to just go ahead and do it. You may fail (I have), but at least you know what *not* to do the next time.

Re: paying the invoices. I, too, paid my invoices even though I didn’t get what I contracted for, as I was raised to honor my agreements. That said, I did email my patternmaker (after a discussion on this forum) and let her know that I did not receive what I paid for and asked her “to make me whole.” Well, that unleashed a wicked Pandora’s Box and she flipped out on me and told me to never contact her again. But she refunded my money.

So just keep pushing on and learning. I did, and I am so much better for it. You’ll eventually end up with a quality, marketable item. Good luck.

Colette: I think creating the perfect pair of leather pants is a worthy goal. I mean, who hasn’t fantasized about creating the perfect pair of jean? People have made millions trying. And the loss of money I was referring to wasnt aimed at you specifically. I was talking about others who have emailed me with stories about loosing THOUSANDS of dollars because they didn’t know any better. Personally, I don’t think you did anything wrong except pay the samplemaker. Actually, after reading the post again, I don’t think there is much you could have done EXCEPT hire a better patternmaker in the firstplace. And that was the point I was trying to make: as a new DE you should try to hire the most experienced person you can afford. If you know you dont know, then hire someone who DOES know. Especially if you are trying to learn how to be a patternmaker.

In regards to hiring someone without much experience: When it comes to patternmaking and sewing, I dont think you can cut corners here. It is like trying to cut corners when building a house and then the roof leaks. I do think you can hire people with little experience when it comes to something you know how to do well because you can train them to do the thing you know how to do and then get it off your plate.

Here is an example: My patternmaker has hired someone to be her assistant. My patternmaker is training the assistant to do the easier jobs first and then, I imagine, once she has perfected the easy jobs my patternmaker will continue to train the assistant until the assistant can do what my patternmaker can do. Now lets say in a few years that assistant goes out on her own. Would I hire that patternmaker? Maybe. But I would start slow with very easy patterns. Would I suggest her to newbies on the boards? Probably not.

I will admit, I think my earlier posts were pretty myopic. I need to realize that there isn’t one way to skin a cat. It IS possible to create a profitable DE business and not live in a city or have much experience. Heck, the whole point of why Kathleen started this was to help those who didn’t know. I just want everyone to realize it is possible, but MUCH MUCH harder.