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	<title>Comments on: Why contractors won&#8217;t partner with you</title>
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	<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/</link>
	<description>How to start a clothing line or run the one you have, better.</description>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4770</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4770</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;...it&#039;s a small world after all, it&#039;s a small world after all, it&#039;s a small world after all, it&#039;s a small, small world...&lt;/i&gt;

Pedro and Chuck have resurfaced. They called a friend of mine and talked a good story to the extent that my friend called me to discuss the deal, maybe there would be a piece for me too. I told her all about their past dealings. Now my friend is going to call her friends and I don&#039;t think P&amp;C will be able to hire talent on the North American continent until they pay up. Susana, what&#039;s their outstanding invoice? Susana did send word a week or so ago that they finally returned those design sketches. Months after the fact. Who knows how long they shopped those around?

This business is really small. If you&#039;re on the outside looking in, it looks big but like I keep saying, people are connected in the most unlikely ways. Word gets out eventually.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;it&#8217;s a small world after all, it&#8217;s a small world after all, it&#8217;s a small world after all, it&#8217;s a small, small world&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Pedro and Chuck have resurfaced. They called a friend of mine and talked a good story to the extent that my friend called me to discuss the deal, maybe there would be a piece for me too. I told her all about their past dealings. Now my friend is going to call her friends and I don&#8217;t think P&#038;C will be able to hire talent on the North American continent until they pay up. Susana, what&#8217;s their outstanding invoice? Susana did send word a week or so ago that they finally returned those design sketches. Months after the fact. Who knows how long they shopped those around?</p>
<p>This business is really small. If you&#8217;re on the outside looking in, it looks big but like I keep saying, people are connected in the most unlikely ways. Word gets out eventually.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4769</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Nov 2006 08:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4769</guid>
		<description>Wow. I just got into the apparel manufacturing side as an owner, and these customers sound like a few I&#039;ve encountered.  At first I thought it might have been my inexperience, until I realized I was been taken--what&#039;s especially galling is the manipulativeness and the feigned &quot;personal affronts&quot; that&#039;s displayed.  Yeah, right *eye roll*
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow. I just got into the apparel manufacturing side as an owner, and these customers sound like a few I&#8217;ve encountered.  At first I thought it might have been my inexperience, until I realized I was been taken&#8211;what&#8217;s especially galling is the manipulativeness and the feigned &#8220;personal affronts&#8221; that&#8217;s displayed.  Yeah, right *eye roll*</p>
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		<title>By: Carrie</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4768</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 04:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4768</guid>
		<description>I think the pattern maker was very professional.  I admire the way she handled the situation.

Getting into the industry I met with many suppliers and contractors who were wary of exactly this kind of &quot;company&quot; (LCM).  It made my life difficult that&#039;s for sure.  I had to do a lot of work to convnice suppliers that I was serious and worth their time.  But now that I have my own business I understand their trepidation when it comes to new people.  I&#039;ve encountered a few charles and pedros of my own.  I think they recognize that they don&#039;t know what they&#039;re doing and try to seek out people who do.  I think it&#039;s a case of wanting to be in the industry but not wanting to put in the time going to school and working for someone else first.  And they don&#039;t want to pay someone else for their experience.

To me this is a phenomenon that plagues all creative industries.  It stems from the fact that the creative arts is not taken seriously as a profession.  For example, many people feel that they can be a fashion designer or a painter and start their own business with absolutely no training or experience.  But you don&#039;t see many people trying to be a lawyer or doctor without training.

Likewise, creative professionals are often offered less than the going rate (which is already lower than in many other professions).  Or they are asked to do work up front or &quot;pro bono&quot; as was the case with pedro and charles.  I&#039;ve never heard of someone walking into a lawyer&#039;s office asking for legal advice and expecting to walk away without paying.  A lawyer goes to school for many years to acquire specialized knowledge in her field.  We pay an hourly rate for her time so that we don&#039;t have to go to law school ourselves to solve our legal issue.

It disappoints me that people do not give the same credit to creative professionals.

Pattern makers, designers and all of the other talented people in the fashion industry have, in most cases, gone to school for a number of years or learned from someone else on the job.

It&#039;s disappointing and frustrating to hear about people like perdro and charles preying on those professionals.  With people like them out there we can&#039;t assume that anything is a paid job.  I guess we all need to keep our eyes open and spot them so we can maximize paid time and minimize wasted time.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the pattern maker was very professional.  I admire the way she handled the situation.</p>
<p>Getting into the industry I met with many suppliers and contractors who were wary of exactly this kind of &#8220;company&#8221; (LCM).  It made my life difficult that&#8217;s for sure.  I had to do a lot of work to convnice suppliers that I was serious and worth their time.  But now that I have my own business I understand their trepidation when it comes to new people.  I&#8217;ve encountered a few charles and pedros of my own.  I think they recognize that they don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re doing and try to seek out people who do.  I think it&#8217;s a case of wanting to be in the industry but not wanting to put in the time going to school and working for someone else first.  And they don&#8217;t want to pay someone else for their experience.</p>
<p>To me this is a phenomenon that plagues all creative industries.  It stems from the fact that the creative arts is not taken seriously as a profession.  For example, many people feel that they can be a fashion designer or a painter and start their own business with absolutely no training or experience.  But you don&#8217;t see many people trying to be a lawyer or doctor without training.</p>
<p>Likewise, creative professionals are often offered less than the going rate (which is already lower than in many other professions).  Or they are asked to do work up front or &#8220;pro bono&#8221; as was the case with pedro and charles.  I&#8217;ve never heard of someone walking into a lawyer&#8217;s office asking for legal advice and expecting to walk away without paying.  A lawyer goes to school for many years to acquire specialized knowledge in her field.  We pay an hourly rate for her time so that we don&#8217;t have to go to law school ourselves to solve our legal issue.</p>
<p>It disappoints me that people do not give the same credit to creative professionals.</p>
<p>Pattern makers, designers and all of the other talented people in the fashion industry have, in most cases, gone to school for a number of years or learned from someone else on the job.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s disappointing and frustrating to hear about people like perdro and charles preying on those professionals.  With people like them out there we can&#8217;t assume that anything is a paid job.  I guess we all need to keep our eyes open and spot them so we can maximize paid time and minimize wasted time.</p>
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		<title>By: Gorgeous Things</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4767</link>
		<dc:creator>Gorgeous Things</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4767</guid>
		<description>Man, this could have been a conversation I had 5 years ago with a software entrepreneur.  These types are everywhere.  &quot;We have a great idea, and we&#039;re going to get rich off it, but we want YOU to do the work for nothing!&quot;  Hah!  I worked with these types when I was in supply chain and they are not worth the phone calls or emails.  Unfortunately, it takes time and sometimes hard experience to recognize these guys.  Thanks for this post, I think you have saved a lot of people a lot of headaches!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, this could have been a conversation I had 5 years ago with a software entrepreneur.  These types are everywhere.  &#8220;We have a great idea, and we&#8217;re going to get rich off it, but we want YOU to do the work for nothing!&#8221;  Hah!  I worked with these types when I was in supply chain and they are not worth the phone calls or emails.  Unfortunately, it takes time and sometimes hard experience to recognize these guys.  Thanks for this post, I think you have saved a lot of people a lot of headaches!</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4766</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4766</guid>
		<description>Thomas/JC are right; these guys aren&#039;t morons (per se) altho they take others for morons. Thomas is right; they are manipulative and imo, passive aggressive jerks playing the good cop/bad cop thing with my friend (which I think distracted her from the issue at hand). They have plenty of money but just because somebody has money doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;ll give it to you -even if/when you&#039;ve earned it. They&#039;re definitely earning in the high six figures if not low seven.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas/JC are right; these guys aren&#8217;t morons (per se) altho they take others for morons. Thomas is right; they are manipulative and imo, passive aggressive jerks playing the good cop/bad cop thing with my friend (which I think distracted her from the issue at hand). They have plenty of money but just because somebody has money doesn&#8217;t mean they&#8217;ll give it to you -even if/when you&#8217;ve earned it. They&#8217;re definitely earning in the high six figures if not low seven.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Cuningham</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4765</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Cuningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4765</guid>
		<description>I agree with JC&#039;s assesment -- these guys probably DO have money. I think you give them too  much credit by calling them &#039;morons&#039; and the like -- people like this aren&#039;t stupid. They are smart and manipulative and they will keep doing what they do until they find someone who will give them what they want.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with JC&#8217;s assesment &#8212; these guys probably DO have money. I think you give them too  much credit by calling them &#8216;morons&#8217; and the like &#8212; people like this aren&#8217;t stupid. They are smart and manipulative and they will keep doing what they do until they find someone who will give them what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: J C Sprowls</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4764</link>
		<dc:creator>J C Sprowls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 05:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4764</guid>
		<description>Eric,

It&#039;s not the trousers that need let out... rather, their hats.

Miracle,

My intution tells me these jamokes aren&#039;t broke. They probably can&#039;t afford to pay for anything beyond their 6-figure salary(ies). It&#039;s been my experience that schmucks who don&#039;t pay bills are typically eating themselves alive.

Re: symptoms of sour deals...

I suggest that any order that is &#039;too big&#039; is suspect. I recommend enforcing limits and trial periods until relationships are proven. Even then, only risk what one can afford to lose.

My favorite client first came to me with a raw sketch of a suit she wanted made. I walked her through the process and refined the design so it was appropriate for her shape, style, coloring, &amp;c.

Her 2nd order consisted of 13 garments. As big as my eyes were, I asked her to pick 2 or 3, then we would reconvene afterward to discuss the rest. As big as my eyes were, I could only afford to lose 3 weeks of labor.

It turns out she gives herself a clothing allowance each April - which is substantial; but, she and I only work on 3 garments at a time. Maybe the day will come that she&#039;ll find a different tailor. But, she likes doing business with me, now - which I all I can ask for.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the trousers that need let out&#8230; rather, their hats.</p>
<p>Miracle,</p>
<p>My intution tells me these jamokes aren&#8217;t broke. They probably can&#8217;t afford to pay for anything beyond their 6-figure salary(ies). It&#8217;s been my experience that schmucks who don&#8217;t pay bills are typically eating themselves alive.</p>
<p>Re: symptoms of sour deals&#8230;</p>
<p>I suggest that any order that is &#8216;too big&#8217; is suspect. I recommend enforcing limits and trial periods until relationships are proven. Even then, only risk what one can afford to lose.</p>
<p>My favorite client first came to me with a raw sketch of a suit she wanted made. I walked her through the process and refined the design so it was appropriate for her shape, style, coloring, &#038;c.</p>
<p>Her 2nd order consisted of 13 garments. As big as my eyes were, I asked her to pick 2 or 3, then we would reconvene afterward to discuss the rest. As big as my eyes were, I could only afford to lose 3 weeks of labor.</p>
<p>It turns out she gives herself a clothing allowance each April &#8211; which is substantial; but, she and I only work on 3 garments at a time. Maybe the day will come that she&#8217;ll find a different tailor. But, she likes doing business with me, now &#8211; which I all I can ask for.</p>
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		<title>By: Miracle</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4763</link>
		<dc:creator>Miracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 02:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4763</guid>
		<description>You know, I would have gotten the boards back before telling them I quit. That&#039;s just how I am, sometimes you have to play games with them like they play with you.

BUT...

When they said they wanted 6 collections a year, wasn&#039;t that the tip off that they didn&#039;t know what they were doing?

I suppose I&#039;m trying to figure out at what point should it be clear that you&#039;re dealing with people who have no idea what they are getting into?

It&#039;s one thing to be clueless, another to be clueless and broke.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I would have gotten the boards back before telling them I quit. That&#8217;s just how I am, sometimes you have to play games with them like they play with you.</p>
<p>BUT&#8230;</p>
<p>When they said they wanted 6 collections a year, wasn&#8217;t that the tip off that they didn&#8217;t know what they were doing?</p>
<p>I suppose I&#8217;m trying to figure out at what point should it be clear that you&#8217;re dealing with people who have no idea what they are getting into?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to be clueless, another to be clueless and broke.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric H</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4762</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4762</guid>
		<description>Someone in the apparel industry should be able to make a fortune on these guys.  After all, with cajones like those, they must have to get their pants custom made.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone in the apparel industry should be able to make a fortune on these guys.  After all, with cajones like those, they must have to get their pants custom made.</p>
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		<title>By: laurra</title>
		<link>http://www.fashion-incubator.com/archive/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/comment-page-1/#comment-4761</link>
		<dc:creator>laurra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fashion-incubator.com/2006/10/why_contractors_wont_partner_with_you/#comment-4761</guid>
		<description>whats a beta store?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whats a beta store?</p>
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