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Ranting & Letting off Steam (not solutions based)
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Melanie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Ranting & Letting off Steam (not solutions based) Reply with quote

Cool! A place I can vent! Understand all of the previous posts discussing how friends and family glaze over when they hear you talking about this...I think my co-workers are ready to steal my computer and my cell phone...all I've been doing at my real job for the last week!
This issue is just about to put me in the looney bin...I was planning to expand my sideline business, and just bought a bunch of supplies towards that end...now I find out that I'm being laid off (from real job) around 2/21...and after 2/10, I'm also stuck with all of this stuff I spent money on and now can't sell!
Either the world is going crazy or I am...not sure which one...luckily I don't have high blood pressure (yet!)...but the craziness of it all is driving me crazy! Add in the fact I'm something of a control freak and like to be aware of how things work and what is going on at all times and it's just a little too much!
But I'm not going to quit...thanks for listening!
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Marilyn Brandon
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, I can't say if this will put me out of business for good or not, but for now I'm definitely out of the game. Just because I can afford to pay for the testing doesn't mean it's lucrative to do it. I believe there's a definite ceiling on how much money people are willing to spend on children's clothing. Oh, I know there are some that can and will pay whatever price is on the tag, but that's not my market.

I've never tried to market a product where the lines have been so blurred. Foreclosures, bankruptcies, and job losses are affecting rich and poor alike. Can my customers still afford my line, and more importantly, are they willing to? How much of a role is the 'fear factor' playing into what purchases consumers are now making and what they're willing to pay for those items? Is the cost of testing going to be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back? The last year has been a real game changer, and this is unfamiliar territory for me. I have no hard and fast data or input by which I can intelligently evaluate this "new" market and make an informed decision. I'm scared of what I "don't" know!

I know on a local level children's boutiques are struggling just to keep their doors open. On a larger scale, I don't think that these stores that have managed to survive are going to jump up and down for the sheer joy of being able to carry my line. I don't think that's realistic. Right now these stores are staying with lines that they KNOW are consistent sellers and depending on them to take them through the downturn. I'm jumping in at the wrong time, and I'm not so enamored of my own product that I think paying customers are going to happily fork over a ridiculous amount of money to buy it. The cute factor only takes you so far. I think my line is really cute, but guess what? So are a lot of others, and they're more established than me. They have proven track records. I haven't established myself yet because I haven't even sold my first season.

As for quality, I can compete, but I don't kid myself into thinking that I'm so head and shoulders above the rest that customers will happily justify paying double or triple the price they'd normally pay for an item. This is a serious consideration for me.

What price am I going to have to put on my product in order to show a profit by the time I factor in the cost of testing? I can't even make an educated guess until I know more about the type of testing required and the actual availability of labs that can and will have a slot for my product once the requirements are known.

The frustration to me is not knowing what specific costs are going to be involved in the testing. How can anyone make an informed decision until we know whether or not XRF testing will be accredited or considered "reasonable testing", and whether we'll need to do unit or component testing?

How about the fact that there are only fifteen accredited labs in the U.S? Should I think that these labs will put aside their big ticket customers in order to do my testing so I can get to market before the selling season is over? All of these variables greatly affect the end cost of the product, and there seem to be no clear answers to any of these things.

I'm not nearly as well informed as many of you, so there's every likelihood that I'm misunderstanding what all of this entails. I spend most of my time with my eyes glazed over and scratching my head, lol. I have no idea whether or not I should proceed until these things are decided. I'm losing a LOT of sleep! lol

Marilyn
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Aria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: another rant... Reply with quote

Beth C wrote:
If we plastic wrap our children, how are they supposed to learn anything at all?

I feel like one of our basic rights and freedoms is being taken away, the right to buy USA made goods. I don't like the government telling me what I can and can't buy and that I can't buy used stuff if I want.


HAHA! You crack me up. Learn? Why kids aren't supposed to LEARN things, they're just supposed to do what Uncle Government tells them to do!!

And rights to USA made goods? What are those? I forgot. I know what cheap Chinese imported crap is, but not USA made goods.

End to the sarcasm. I understand your rant completely.

And buying what you want? We're a stone's throw away from all the money all people make going into a fund and the government rationing out the products it deems safe for us so that we're at the government's mercy for everything from socks to tampons all for the sake of "increased safety for children".
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Aria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pixie wrote:
I am angry. This is the country my forefathers died for. .... How can my country do this to me or my heritage?


This makes me want to cry. And hate the government even more. Compliance means letting go of this country's roots rather than celebrating them.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarah R wrote:
I mean, I know what the law seems to require, but then for example, this memo about the natural fibers - undyed, etc. - but how does that actually help anyone? If you make something using only undyed natural fibers and only undyed, unprocessed (does bleach count as a chemical?) thread and no fasteners of any sort...


Bleach is a chemical. And I've thought about the same thing. If I use a metal hook and poly thread eye on an otherwise-all-silk dress, will I have to test to comply with the law?


Sarah R wrote:
I'm [...] friends with mostly more liberal, government is our friend folks, and am happy to see some of them getting a little disillusioned...


Not all liberals are in favor of big government and think of government as our friend. All the liberals I know (myself included) believe the government needs to back the hell out of our lives and quit trying to govern every tiny part of it.
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Aria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marilyn Brandon wrote:
I believe there's a definite ceiling on how much money people are willing to spend on children's clothing.


There's a definite limit on what most people can AFFORD that usually determines how much people are willing to pay. And in today's economy, with 2.5 million jobs lost last year and more cuts than that expected this year, how much people can AFFORD is only going to go down in a time when retail costs will have to go UP.
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Pixie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm depressed that my family and friends do not understand. At a gathering of 22+ last night I was told I was blowing things out of proportion and that there was no way this law could possibly affect me. Family members who are very politically active and knowledgeable. Maybe some of them will take a look at what I talked about. I figure they, of all people, would get this. But last night - no. And I think as long as it's not really talked about in our news media, it won't be real to them. I still have seen very little in the news. Perhaps it will take the inevitable "strike" that would have to come if nothing changes as we all drop out.
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Aria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pixie, I'm being told I don't care about kids, how dare I not care about kids when we're trying to have a baby right now, how dare I put costs above safety, but I'm having a hard time getting people to see just how far-reaching this is, that the costs aren't just pennies per item, but rather so high that many businesses will have to go under, my own will have to be restructured, and in an economy with too few jobs as it is, we can't handle the potentially-massive influx of unemployed people and the increase in welfare applicants who have kids to feed.
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Pixie
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Aria. I got some input that, "If it keeps lead away from my baby, then I'm all for it!"

Well, obviously what happened with China is an issue. But I shared this clip I found on the internet with her:

Quote:
"I thought you would be interested to know that I was informed today that one of the leading U.S. suppliers of science educational materials has suspended sales of all light bulbs (principally microscope light bulbs) owing to the little dot of solder found on the bottom. Apparently this little dot of solder makes those bulbs just too dangerous to sell into schools, despite the fact that no microscope bulb has ever harmed anyone from exposure to its little dot of solder. To my knowledge, there is no available substitute on the market for this ten cent item. This is EXACTLY what I predicted in my CPSC presentation on November 6. As my email from Friday indicated, it is no longer economic to sell telescopes either. Can someone explain to me what Congress had in mind with this law? Has Congress decided to delegate scientific pursuits to the Germans, Japanese or Chinese so Americans can be "safer"? Or is Congress hoping we will all move back into caves to adopt a "safer" lifestyle?

I still have kids in school. Your law makes illegal or uneconomic those implements they need for an adequate education. I can't escape the reach of the CPSIA by sending my children to private school - the ridiculous strictures of the CPSIA follows them everywhere in this country. Will I have to send them to boarding school in another country so they can look through a microscope or a telescope? What's Congress' master plan?"


It brought a whole new light for her. I don't know if it did for anyone else. This is just so very far reaching.
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Aria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a link? I'd like to post that, but know some of the idiots I'm dealing with will demand links.

Heh, the cost of "safety" is kids dying, a lac of education, and charities (such as Project Linus) being put under.
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Aria
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, they're idiots because they don't think any of this is a big deal, not because they want links.
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Kathleen F.
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Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving some entries:

Aria wrote:
I posted this link to a forum I'm on: http://www.khnl.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?ClipID1=3323714&h1=New%20lead%20law%20on%20kid%27s%20items%20threatens%20to%20close%20local%20doll%20shop&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=137133&LaunchPageAdTag=News&activePane=info&rnd=25878297

A mother is making dolls to supplement her daughter's insurance since her daughter has a rare disease. She can't afford the cost of her daughter's medical care otherwise, but will have to go out of business anyway. Who knows how her daughter will get her medical care. I'm concerned this child may die as a result of the "increased safety for children". Yeah, real safety concerns if children may die.

So I posted about this and some jerk said this things:

i am sure there is another job for her somewhere that doesn't involve harming children.

Yeah, there are just an abundance of jobs, right? I mean, the unemployment rate is as high as it is because people are just lazy, right? Not at all because jobs are being shipped overseas and now the government wants to make many home businesses illegal because Chinese toy companies haven't complied with the existing laws against lead-based paint. But he's got his secure job, so that must mean others are just lazy.

I asked, "Is the cost of "increased safety" going to be the DEATH of children?"

His reply? assuming all this comes true like the bullshit you are trying to paint no. one child would die but i am sorry one person's death compared to the death of millions doesn't impress me.

I want some sort of evidence that MILLIONS are dying because of the current bad products. This girl won't be the only one who may die. Children are going to die, but it's not because of unsafe products. It'll be because their parents can no longer afford their medical care and the states are going broke (my state is set to be bankrupt in a few more weeks), so relying on government aid is not so wise.

People are actually believing that home-businesses are killing people, that it's the hand-crafters to blame and so should pay the price. People really don't understand that the cost to consumers are going to add up, and the cost to parents with businesses is going to be devastating.

I really think the "think of the children!" fear-mongering should be made illegal. Use a bit of common sense, like about this law, and you'll be accused of not caring about kids. It's pretty much un-PC to not be willing to blindly go along with anything that's "for the children."

What are some replies you've have from others who just don't get it and blindly think this law is a wonderful thing?


Tracy D wrote:
Honestly, when I tell people about this law, it's met with disbelief then they do the research and find out the truth and start writing letters...it's not been met with the attitude you've found, sorry. But I'm telling homeschoolers who are scared spitless there are going to be no books to use to teach there kids, much less are they going to be able to clothe their kids well.

Tracy D
currently in Colorado, heading to TX soon


Valerie Burner wrote:
Aria,

In trying to find more information about this very subject last night, I found the first and only case, (as far as I can tell), of a child dying as a result of lead poisoning from a clothing related item. This seems to be the catalyst for this legislation.

It happened in 2007, a boy about age 3-4 played at a friend's house. He became listless and ill and parents took him to ER. They said he had the "flu" or something and sent him home. A day or two later, he was rushed back. His brain was swelling and he was terribly ill. He went into a coma. The X-ray that the hospital did showed a small item in his stomach- and they thought it was something they did. Second X-ray showed the heart-shaped charm from a Reebok sneaker. The child was declared brain-dead and removed from life support.

The charm from the Reebok sneaker was tested. It contained 95% lead. Other charms from similar items tested much lower. The sneaker was made in China. While I am not China-bashing in particular, it is the most common denominator in all of these cases, and it is a shame that we all have to suffer for the mistakes of the few.

As far as finding millions of people dying from lead poisoning or other such nonsense- it just ain't happenin'. There will most likely be more children becoming ill or dying from melamine in formula, and the FDA can't seem to find an acceptable level. Huh? There IS no acceptable level of melamine in food products. Period.

FYI, I also found that when we use the acceptable level of 600ppm, that translates to 0.06%. So 300ppm=0.03%, and the 100ppm=0.01% lead content. That's a FAR cry from the 95% lead that the poor little boy ingested.

Just thought you'd like to know. I can't post links, because I don't even remember where I got it all. Just search around for lead poisoning, lead levels in jewelry, etc...


Aria wrote:
Valerie, that might be the jewelry charm that was the exception to the recalls. From my research, all the recalls for lead over the last couple of years dealt with lead in paint, and then the one exception case that was a lead charm of some sort.

So so far with no one I've talked with and in none of my research have there been any recitations of harm coming from fabrics, only with painted items (and lead paint has been illegal for decades anyway, so it's a compliance issue) and one instance of metal jewelry.

Yup, we're saving "so many" children and will let others die for lack of medical care and necessities, and so many school items will become expensive commodities.
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Tina HD
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this just occurred to me, and I've been fuming ever since, so since you gave us a place to vent, here goes:

The govt can tell me I can't sell my cloth diapers that have little to no chance of having even a fraction of the lead that they are allowing with cpsia (unless I spend thousands of dollars to test them to prove they have no lead), and yet they can mandate that I must inject my child with mercury, formaldehyde, aborted fetal stem cells, monkey and swine cells, and any untold number of other toxic materials in vaccines that are known to cause harm and even death.

HOW DARE THEY!?
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Kathleen F.
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Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 11557
Location: NM Albuquerque

PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get your point -really I do- but we should step away from the whole vaccine debate. Some people are offended by it.
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Aria
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tina, damned good point.

Kathleen, I know vaccines are a point of contention among many parents, but, whether or not one sees vaccines as a good thing, what does stand is that the government is trying to take away the choice. It's an issue about choices that are taken away, and the people taking them away aren't exactly consistent. This toxin is required, this toxin is sooooo illegal that all children's things will be illegal until proven to not have it.

It makes me wonder if there's not some hidden motive. Perhaps they're making this so confusing and so wide-spread because they anticipate not everyone knowing or complying, so they can make criminals out of people and charge them lots of money. Pay up or go to jail. Your freedom is captive unless you pay the ransom. Is this the government's solution to the budget deficit? Rather than make jobs and keep jobs, just criminalize everything? Free country, I thought. Foolish me.

Yet you'd think if these item were son incredibly dangerous that they'd be made illegal effective immediately. If they're safe to sell for the time being, why will they suddenly be death-traps come one magical day in February?

What next, requiring kids pass some sort of exam to be allowed to ride a bike? Or pass some sort of test before being allowed to sleep in a bed without rails? Oh! Better ban books altogether. ids might get paper cuts. And dirt, we should ban that too since kids might eat it and inject something that could make them sick for a few days!
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